woodsters

Thanks Blloen, Geocan, and Welch...lal something that I agree with. Mtn-man...I took the time to go and find a cache yesterday..and place a TB... Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

Ah, but see you read into something that is not there. Let me explain why it scared me... Was married to an ex wife (just married for about a month or so). We were living in California and had flown home to Augusta, Georgia for someone elses wedding. We picked up her car there at home and were driving back to California. Her parents are from Arkansas, just west of Little Rock and she still had cousins, aunts, uncles, and a grandmother that still lived there. She hadn't seen them in a long time and wanted to stop by on our way through, which we did and spent the night. Her relatives lived in the mountains. They all lived within a a mile of each other. The aunt we stayed with had a cemetary next to the house. Let's just say they don't believe in street lights or proch lights. It was a spooky and terrifying experience, especially not knowing this "clan". The next morning we left we even saw a burning car. It scared the crap out of me. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

Hiding behind a statement of "place a cache and we will see" is really weak. That would be like a statement that should be put on another thread(responsibility) of "run a business" and we will see. I thought but I did not stoop to that level, until now. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

just went to the page about maintaining a cache and it says: Step 5 - Maintain the cache Once you place the cache, it is your responsibility to maintain the cache and the area around it. You'll need to return as often as you can to ensure that your cache is not impacting the area, and ensure that the cache is in good repair. Once people have visited the cache, inquire about the cache and their opinion of the location. Does the area look disturbed? Are visitors disrupting the landscape in any way? If you have concerns about the location, feel free to move or remove it from the area. hmmm I think I gave a pretty good synopsis myself and even added some... Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

quote:Originally posted by solohiker: quote:Originally posted by Divine:Duh. Hiding some caches doesn't give any credibility in this discussion. I didn't gain any magical hiding abilities with credibility certificate after placing my first few caches. After having found a few different kind of caches and reading the guidelines, FAQs and these forums I knew pretty much all of the basics of cache hiding. Sure, the more caches I find & hide, the more caching stories and threads I read & hear etc, the more nuances and ideas I keep learning. Having 'credibility' to join a discussion like this, it has very little to do with. - This discussion concerns maintaining caches. I think spending time and money to support a cache is relevant to the discussion. Anyone can hide a cache. What matters is the maintaining of the cache. This discussion is a direct parallel to my favorite Seinfeld episode. Still think that if placing a cache makes a differnece, then the more you place makes a difference...if all that has to do credibility.... well....i'm not going to point fingers. Anyone can hide a cache...so it takes an expert or brain surgeon to maintain one? Let me get this straight...to maintain a cache, it needs to be checked periodicallly. It needs to be checked that it's : 1) in good order, 2) in good condition, 3) not adversly affecting it's surroundings, 4) is still allowed to be there, 5) log is there and still has adequate supply of paper to log on in it. , 6) one may even want to double check it's coordinates and ensure that it hasn't been moved. So where does it take anyone other than the person who placed the cache to maintain it? Is there any other special rules to doing it that aren't posted? If so, please give us a lesson and enlighten us... Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

Won't be in Arkansas for sure, been there...scared the crap out of me... Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

quote:Originally posted by solohiker:Believe me I know about spam. Can you say spam filter? They work. How does someone run a business without posting a valid email address? I guess they run it like this. I don't think that was a fair comment to Jeremy or Geocaching.com in whole. Mopar cleared up that there were email addresses all over the site without the NOSPAM in it. When you sign up it tells you that you can put the NOSPAM in your email. It doesn't even have to say NOSPAM, it can say whatever it wants. Stating that a business or someone should have a spam filter is just plainly stupid. They have have one. It says NOSPAM in their email address and it was cheaper and easier to use than any other spam filter product on the market. It didn't take anytime to download, setup or maintain. It's one less program running in the background, taking up resources and one less headache that could cause software conflicts. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

Bracket, you don't tell the boss to shut up...lol...just kidding... Solo, alot of people put the NOSPAM in the middle so they won't get spammed. They do that because bots will forage email addresses and spam them. I can forward you over a 100 a day I get, give or take 10, if you would like. I personally have not added the spam in my email addresses to include my email addresses on my outdoors website. As a result, I get more than enough, but I don't complain about it except to my wife. And even then I accuse her of submitting my email addresses for the Viagara ones and oenile implants...lol Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

They can get the same bugs physically but the generated tags from Groundspeak with the stamped number, make it more secure. Groundspeak is going to publish only one set of tags per number. If people can make their own (homemade - printed up on the printer),then others can copy them easier. As far as CrimsonWraths speaking about the owner can delete the wrong paths that are inpu into the log, how do you know which one is the correct one? Then some poor souls are going to keep getting the wrong one and it's going to cause some confusion if the owner can't track down the cache owner that the fake bug is in and remove it. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

quote:Originally posted by TotemLake:I think we are in agreement it is a grey area that bears thought. This is the only reason I brought it up in the first place. As noted by virtue of the way the thread started, somebody already felt geocaching.com is in a position of responsibility by means of approving the cache. I don't think this will be the last time we'll see this assumption. Right on! Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

Was there any mention about why the cache was a problem or if it was his cache or another persons cache that was placed or someone that wants to place one? Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

I agree with this as well. I like the icons on the few cache pages that have them and wish they could incorporate it onto the pages here. Another problem we've come across is bicycles as well. One area here that we went after a cache was as big as a road(I assume it was at once), but it's now a conservatroy and bikes as well as dogs(among many other things) are not allowed there. Heck the cache probably isn't allowed as well. The worse part was the cache was a mile down the road. If someone would of brought their bikes with them to go, they would of been upset, especially if there was no way that they could secure their bikes. Goes the same as taking pets with you. Reminds me, I need to go check that cache page and see if posted a note about that if someone else hasn't. It's not my cache either! lol Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

alrighty then! Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

About lawsuits...if they are going to happen, they are going to happen. Someone will be offended by a travelbug somewhere. Yeah it will be stupid, but it will happen. Who will be responsible for it? Also, here's another point. I saw a thread and have not even read it but it's title was list of Wheelchair Accessible caches. It's a very good point. Now is geocaching.com going to responsible for not promoting caches exclusively for handicapped? Hopefully you don't have to go through a door somewhere that a wheelchair can not go through. Is geocaching.com responsible for those who get hurt while searching for a cache? I'm sure some courts will see the lawsuits as frivolous. But, it will happen. It's a matter of time. I think Jeremy has or at least hope he has some legal guidance there and has to let them handle the headaches as they come. If not, then no one could anything. Just hopefully courts will start turning the books on frivolous lawsuits and start holding the one suing responsible for the time and assess additional penalties. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

Hmm. I differ with you somewhat too. Aren't debates great!? A newspaper would be responsible only for what they write. For example an employee of theirs. A person can write a 'Letter to the Editor' and are not responsible for it. Of course they hopefully would use good judgement and not print anything that would discriminate or offend, but of course that doesn't happen. People are offended all the time or at least sya they are. An approver would hold the same place as an ad placer or typesetter. They don't have any responsibility over the article or ad. Same as Geocaching.com does not promote responsibility for caches. They simply have somewhat rules in place to go by so that people will not be freely posting a lot of crap. Even when searching for caches on their site, each and every cache page has a disclaimer that they are not responsible. They also have the following placed on the guidleines for placing caches "You are ultimately responsible for the cache so make sure you know the rules for the area where your cache is being placed." Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

Right on CR! You hit the nail on the head! Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

Totemlake, I understand what you are talking about and somewhat agree to a point. Especially the "approval" system now in place. But I tend to think there is some difference in the two (Geocaching.com and Napster). Napster says, we aren't do anything wrong. Yes they were promoting trading copyrighted material. They knew it was happening and still allow it. They were guilty because they were a "hub". The files were coming through them and not going between the filesharers like Grokster and Kazaa does (and many others). That is why until now, that they haven't been able to go after those type of companies like Napster. They are now talking of lawsuits against individual file sharers. So be it. Geocaching.com doesn't promote the placing of caches on private property or other properties not wanting Geocaching allowed. Thus the thread that Solohiker started about the Arkansas State Parks system. They didn't want it, but have made some ammends to allow it somewhat under their guidance and control. Giving what an approver is probably given and knowing what they know, it's hard for them to know exactly what is allowed and where. If they had to seek out permission from everyone that owns or manages land on caches, then it would take a lot longer for a cache to be approved. I think responsibility needs to be placed more on the placer and cacher than the Geocaching.com website. Geocaching.com is similar to a newspaper. They publish what others read. They can not be responsible for the content. People who read the paper are subscribers and pay for the service. Geocaching.com puts the facts out. The subscriber takes the information. If someone takes out an ad with the newspaper and an error was made by the placer of the ad, then is the newspaper in the wrong for that? I do agree that the approval system could use some work. It's up to them to learn it proactively or reactively. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

They can be good and bad. Good when someone needs new batteries. Bad if left out in the extreme heat and leak or explode. Heat will also drain them. Leave some AAA's as well. Some of us have GPSr's that take AAA's. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

Thanks Divine! I guess if given the fact that numbers give you credibility, then you are a bit more credible! I guess things come down to that peoples opinions are not credible or worth crap... Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

First on the Golfball. Leave a golfball with a logo on it. Like I have some from the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center. A lot of people collect logo golfballs. And I don't mean the logos "Titlelist" or other golf ball brand names. On the virtuals. I brought this up in another forum and here is my OPINION on virtuals. I believe virtual finds should be seperate from physical cache finds, just as "benchmarks" are. Someone mentioned that while they were in another state they went and hit a lot of virtuals and saw more than the travel pamphlets and books put out. I think virtual approvals should be easier to be accomplished and should not fall under the same restrictions as physical caches. While I do agree somewhat with the rule that if a physical can be placed there, then a virtual shouldn't. But I believe in that case that the distance should dropped somewhat on those cases. Maybe .05 mile. But as someone else stated, I have not placed a cache and my opinion has no credibility. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

Mark it with a warning on the cache page. Those who don't want to do it don't have to. Sounds cool to me. I would think it would be a better cache than the "Glen" full of deer as cachers will obviously disturb those deer in their natural habitat. Might scare one or some into the road and get killed. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

Remember, do not leave a physical cache while on VACATION! Sorry couldn't resist... Have a great vacation and happy caching! Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

What if someone puts a matchbox car as a TB (hypothetical). They purchase a number and make a tag for it. Then I pickup that TB. What's to say I don't go and get the same car at the store and make up a tag for it with the exact same number that you printed on your tag? Then I drop into a cache somewhere? Now you will have 2 TB's that look exactly the same with the same number on them and there are posts being made about it in one area and then in another. I think that would easily foul up the tracking system. I know it sounds evil and like a criminal, but I have worked in law enforcement/prisons for a long time and you learn to think ahead like one to help detere problems. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

Napster didn't charge either.... Neither did or do Grokster and Kazaa.... Geocaching.com is not responsible for the actions of the cache or the cache placers. They are a medium for letting people know where the caches are. With the words from them especially on their stance on things like their logo and how it can be used and the legal mumbo jumbo, I assume they have legal guidance on what they can or can not do. I'm a bit confused on the initial statement of this topic as it was not specific enough. The "land manager has a problem with a certain cache". Your cache, someone elses cache? What is their problem with it? I think having to follow the strict rules of a land manager is somewhat better than not being allowed to place a cache at all. If you don't like their rules, then don't place one. If the cache belongs to someone else, let them know or let the land manager remove it. Also let the approver for that area know the rules of that land manager. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com

quote:Originally posted by solohiker:If you have never placed a cache, what credibility do you have in a discussion about where caches should be placed? Place a local cache and let's talk :-) The point I was making makes no difference whether you've placed one, two or a hundred. It's a common sense thing. If you can follow the rules of placing a physical cache on property where it is allowed, and have a means of maintaining it, then who cares if you live next to it, near it or not? It has has already been stated by others that there are other unforeseen circumstances that cause caches to go un maintained. Of course there are going to be idiots who place one not knowing where to place one, or even care to maintain it, but you aren't going to stop it with the current system that is in place. Keystone has mentioned some obvious ones that, um no , should not get approved. But who's to tell me that I can not maintain a physical cache that is not near my home? I've suggested a simple system of making more of a verification system that will make it easier to keep people near their caches. With the current way of doing things, people will be dishonest, cheat the system easier and everyones (approvers and cache seekers) wheels will be spinning rather than turning. I've also suggested a rule of only a certain amount of caches to be placed by each member. That way it allows future members the chance and experience of placing a cache. Especially when they argue about a cache and someone mentions for them to place a cache first. Where will they end up placing one? In the last 3 years of Geocaching, some areas have become so saturated with with caches. In another 3 years there will be no where for them to place them, giving the fact of rules of not placing them in certain places or rules that land managers put out against placing caches on their lands. Perhaps there should be a time limit (6 months -1 year) placed on caches. And only a few caches placed by one person at a time. That way the sport can still grow and allow those same vetures that the others have had in the last 3 years? Just because I haven't placed a cache does not mean that I don't have an opinion or good ideas. It also doesn't mean that I don't know how to properly place a cache or how to maintain it. Brian Wood Woodsters Outdoors http://www.woodsters.com