woodsters

quote:Originally posted by Frolickin: This thread is about placing a cache (virtual in this case) on vacation. You, while trying to defend the action, stated that one of the things that a person who does this can do is to go back and take new readings should the coordinates be bad. I pointed out that this is tough to do given that it was done while on vacation and the issue would not be known until one returns. Why would it not be known? If people are trying to find it and are reporting bad finds or can't find the certain virtual, then they post a message stating so and/or email the cache owner/placer. No difference in the way it is handled in comparison to the way a traditional is handled. Makes no difference of how far or close away you are from it. If you aren't going to fix it or get it fixed, then it gets archived. quote: If it is within your caching area where you go and you place a cache, it would not be declined as a vacation cache. But there is no set distance limit in the guidelines. I agree that a traditional would be more frowned upon at a high distance away from the "caching area" as you stated, but this is about virtuals. Let us not forget cachers outr there with over 2000 finds and hundreds of caches all over the US. Now lets get real,over 100 caches placed? How can one maintain that many especially in so many locations? If they were virtuals, then I would understand more, but they all aren't and these folks are praised. My comment on my hometown being 1000 miles away was went to mean that I now have 2 different caching areas that are 1000 miles apart. Does that mean I can place a cache in my hometown and it not be considered a vacation cache? And then there are those areas with very few caches if any. My hometown there are not a lot. There could be some great virtuals that I could of placed while there. As far as the point of them being removed or moved, well I have plenty of family there to take a look for me, to include retired parents. I'm sure there are many people who visit Augusta Georgia and many there that do not know the folklore or some of the history in that area. One being a cement column that is still standing from an old slave market. There's a story that it hasn't been removed because there is a curse on it placed by a slave. Whenever people try to remove it, they die suddenly. The column is still there and a vital part of the history of the town. There are many others that I could easily place to entertain those not from the area or those who just don't know about them. My opinion is that the "vacation" term is very misleading and lame. People want to try and restrict what they don't like, but as everyone else states "it's beating a dead horse". Doesn't matter which side of the horse you are on. Brian As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

Leatherman I was commenting on the point that you stated that you would be happy to delete them if they were moved to another site. My remark was that i'm sure you can. If they were disappointing to you, then by all means remove them. Brian As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

If the virtual cache location is a small one and there is already a cache there, then I would have to agree with Mtn Man. You could at least make reference to the location in your online log for others to see and even include it's coordinates. Or perhaps email the original cache owner and see if they will make a note of that in the description. AS far as fly46's comment on virtuals being annoying, the neat thing is that geocaching lets you know what's a virtual, so those that don't want to do them, don't have to. I agree with leatherman....yawn... Glad I didn't start this thread....lol Brian As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

quote:Originally posted by Frolickin: If it is in your caching area, then it would not have been archived as a vacation cache. You are trying to split hairs. Fro. Ok so now that I have caches found into different areas a 1000 miles apart. One area is where I currently reside. The other is my hometown. What you stated doesn't make sense. Brian As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

But his (Jeremy) statement wasn't on one particular cache. It was on the vacation cache issue in general. Matter of fact he stated he would "amend" the vacation cache issue. As far as what it states on the guidelines, yes it says "No Vacation Caches". Is it a correct statement now? No, as they are allowed with the restrictions. I know it's being nit-picky. But it's not fair to lead newer people like me and those even newer the wrong way. Brian As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

Bottom line... a cache shouldn't be placed locally, on vacation or whatever, if it's not going to be maintained. I think it doesn't lie on the locals to clean up anything. If it so happens comes to that, then it will make a nice cache in trash out event. I don't think it's fair to say that those who reside locally are going to do any better of a job maintaining it. As far as the virtual you mentioned of: I would be a jerk. I would make the requests as you stated directly. After a period if time, I would mark it and notify geocaching or whoever about it. I do agree that illegal caches should not be allowed. Especially if there is a sign posted (and that's the only way there) or if there is question about trespassing to get to the cache itself (which I questioned a local cache on private property or at least the only access to it was from private property and the person archived it). Brian As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

quote:Originally posted by leatherman: _That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard._ I don't care if others like Virts. Too suggest that a traditional cache shouldn't be placed where a Interesting Virtual should be is absurd! Yes a micro is a traditional cache. If there's a way to place a traditional where a virtual is, I can see the fact that a traditional out rules a virtual. But if it's not right there or along the way of the hunt and not noticed, then I see no problem wit a virtual being voided from the .10 mile limit. quote:_When you provide a cache for others you should be appealing to the majority._ A micro certainly provides 100% more than a Virtual can. I don't expect others to share my expectations of a cache. I'm interested in the hunt first. Followed by location. Others will have very different interests. _A Virtual can not meet my first criteria. It's not a real hunt. A micro is, and can be very challenging._ You can't force everyone to find interest in your historical location. So your point is frivolous. I'm not alone in the hunting issue either. _I have two virts in my count and would be happy to delete them if we could move them to another site._ I was very disappointed with them. Nothing truly interesting. I would have enjoyed a good search. Why worry about a virtual in your stats? It's not like it used to be where all the types were added up to a total amount. You can probably go back and delete your finds for those virts and remove them. And if they weren't really interesting to you in the first place , then I wouldn't of logged them. Remeber like you stated, not everyone is going to have the same opinion. I'm sure there are many who like virts and the one virt in your stats hasa lot of log entries, and the few that I read where very good responses. Brian As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

quote:Originally posted by hydee:Your virtual cache was archvied because it was a cache placed on vacation. Vacation caches are not allowed. If you would like to email a local cacher and have them adopt the cache then we would be more than happy to reconsider your submission as long as it meets the virtual cache guidelines. hydee _I work for the frog_ Adopt a virtual? I can see adopting a virtual only for the fact that a person no longer wants to approve finds or gets out of geocaching. But other than that, that makes no sense. Ok, now someone has to get someone to adopt a virtual? Remember Jeremy stated that vacation caches are allowed within the restrictions that I posted above. So to be technical about it, the statement of vacation caches are not allowed would not be correct, as they are, with restrictions. Brian As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

quote:Originally posted by Frolickin: There's the rub. If it is placed while on vacation, the hider cannot return to the site and get new readings. Fro. Who's to say they can't? Not everyone goes hundreds or thousands of miles to vacation. As I stated the cache can be archived. If fellow cachers that are in the area want to try to help them then that's another option. We are talking about a virtual and not a traditional. If it so happens that the coordinates are wrong and the person can't go back to the spot and recheck them, then it gets archived. There's nothing left there. No cache to go pick up that will litter the ground. Brian As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

quote:Originally posted by Nurse Dave & LKay: Once again I'll bring up the example of the hider writing down the wrong coords. You're back home, somebody says "hey those coords point to the middle of a lake." Now what? And also once again, caches aren't meant to be placed with the idea that they are just going to be archived at the first sign of trouble. And thus the reason for requiring maintenance. And what about traditionals that post the wrong coordinates as well? What happens with them? People post that they couldn't find it or as you mentioned in the middle of a lake. The cache placer can: A)Make a trip back if reasonable to check the coordinates, B)Tell this person what they were supposed to be pointing to and ask to see what coordinates they have for it and make adjustments on the page, or C) archive it. It happens. Even if I go back to a spot 10 different times, I may end up with different coordinates than you. There is a local cache here like that. I would think that in the apporval process when the approver plots it out and sees that it's in the middle of water that they would question it. People make mistakes. Brian As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

Couldn't say it any better Breaktrack. As I mentioned, Jeremy did mention in the one thread I had mentioned before about that Vacation Caches would be allowed under certain circumstances. Here's what Jeremy said in that thread: quote: have a solution, and I'll be happy to amend the vacation cache issue. If you place a cache and the land owner has agreed to maintain it, you are welcome to place one on vacation. To do this you need to put the land manager's contact information (phone number or email will do) on the cache page so if it needs maintaining the geocacher can contact them. Otherwise don't place caches on vacation. It's irresponsible behavior to hide something you have no intention of maintaining. So with that said, what about Virtual Vacation Caches? I think that the physical on the spot maintenance is voided in these cases. Just like any other traditional type of cache, if someone reports the virtual is no longer there, then it gets archived. Brian As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

In regards to Team GPSaxophone's comment on the virtual caches belonging on the other website, I must make a comment that if that is the case then one would think that Geocaching.com would not allow Virtuals at all. Would be just the same as saying that the letterbox hybrids don't belong in caches either as their is a place for that the letterboxing site (I don't letterbox). I think virtuals offer you the chance to see things that you may not see while going to a nearby traditional. Now with the way that the site holds your states, there are not a total amount(except on the cache pages) that you found. They are now broken down. Brian As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

I believe that was actually Criminals avatar you posted. Brian As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

I agree with you Haggaeus and Runaround. I've often thought this before and believe I have mentioned it. My feeling is that you could easily miss a lot of things when going after a traditional and not see many virtuals that could educate you. I imagine I've missed some markers, statues, and etc trying to find a traditional. I have no problem with the virtuals being voided of the rule you mentioned. But everyone has their opinion. Some don't like virtuals, I've never done one myself yet. Some don't like multis or micros. Brian As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

Yes and what is the question? Normally the website address is printed on the money as well. If not then the address is www.wheresgeorge.com Brian As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

I may be a minority here but I agree with you Team Jedi. Going along with the "if a physical couldn't be placed there" guideline, I don't see why at least the Wright Bros one wouldn't get approved. It's of historical nature. Someone mentioned in a different thread about it's hard for the approvers to know what is private property and etc. I would think this would probably go with along the same line. How would an approver know if a physical could be placed there, unless they have specific knowledge of that exact spot? As far as the vacation cache thing goes, the guidelines do no tell it all. Jeremy did state in a thread that they would be allowed if certain requirements were met. They are not written in the guidelines but he did state it on the forum. As far as a virtual not being there tomorrow, I have to agree, I would say a statue has a better chance of being there than a tupperware container, film canister or ammo box. Just as those are sometimes taken or moved and those caches have to be archived, I would think you could easily do it with the virtuals and probably more less often than the traditionals and micros. Brian As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

quote:Originally posted by leatherman:That's not an accurate statement. You should say in your small over-regulated part of the Country. There's nothing stopping kids or felons from buying ammo here. I can't imagine it being a problem in other states. Just the Liberal over-regulated ones. I know there are stores that will not sell to minors. _Your right though the only position to take is that it is against the rules._ NextName=wAnti-Mokita.html He did state legally. It's a Federal Law(18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(1)), not a state or local one (although they may have similar laws). Brian As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

quote:Originally posted by Mopar:OK, so you have NO actual knowledge of who approved those caches? It could very well be the same approver. The guidelines are constantly changing and evolving, caches that would not be approved today are grandfathered in under the guidelines that were in effect when they were approved. Some cachers also change or move the cache after it's approved. I've seen quite a few "well, the cache is missing, so I'm converting this to a virtual" caches, which should not be allowed, since a virtual would obviously not be approved there otherwise. As for private property, YOU try looking at a map and determine 100% what's public and what's private. Besides, there is nothing against the rules in placing a cache on private property, WITH PERMISSION. You can't possibly know what dialog the cache hider and the cache approver had leading up to a cache being approved. Your right, I do not know who approved. But we are talking about 2 different states and from my knowledge it's not the same approver. Matter of fact from one approvers comments on the forum(and the states they mentioned they approve and my current state was not mentioned) I would take it that they would not approve some of the caches in this state where I currently live. Yes I understand the constant changes and have heard the mention of the grandfather clause. But the one virtual cache on the military installation was placed at the end of January this year. The virtual cache I was speaking of that you drive down the interstate near me was placed since I've joined geocaching.com, the other one on the private property issue I can understand what you are stating about the approver not knowing about the private property issue there. Just looked and this cache was "Temporarily Removed", perhaps to reasons I stated on it's online log. The fact of it was that the account it was on was a sock puppet with no finds and only this as a hide. The person on the end of the account was a girl who who's boyfriends dad placed the cache and I guess she was supposed to check on it. She told she didn't even know if it was still there and the she has only checked on it once or twice in over a year. It was in the woodline right behind the apt complex she lived in. Brian As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

quote:Originally posted by Mopar: Here we go again! When did you notice this about the approvers? When you dealt with various approvers on all your various cache hides? That's an awefully big blanket you have there. I doubt many of us have dealt with more then 1-2 approvers while hiding caches (I have about 12-14 hides between 2 accounts), and without any hides, I wouldnt think you would have any 1st hand knowledge at all of what the various approvers allow or disallow. I'm speaking of the comments that have been made on the board by approvers along with those who have tried to place caches and get denied. I can compare that to some of the caches I've found which were approved through the different approvers. I've tried to not be specific, on these, but here are a couple examples. In Augusta there is a cache on a Military Installation. Guidelines state that "Caches will be quickly archived if we see the following: Caches near or in military installations" . Freedom Park Trail there is clearly on Fort Gordon, which is a Military Installation. Someone else mentioned about their virtual not getting approved in their hometown. The approver stated it was a statue and that there are many. The cache placer thought it to be unique and interesting. It was clearly acceptable according to the guidelines. This was obviously a matter of opinions. And there are caches around around where I live now. A virtual that you will notice driving down an interstate(just tell them what the unique object is) and one that is obviously on private property (have to go into a apartment complex to reach). These are just a few right off the top of my head. To each their own, my only comment is that some appear to approve on basis of their own opinion and not within the acceptable and unnacceptable guidelines. Brian As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

I agree, if it's live ammo, it's a no-no. If it's a casing or the bullet(lead tip) itself, then it poses no danger nor is it illegal to have, unless one wants to consider it paraphenelia, which is a whole different topic. Another thing to consider about live ammo is the possibility of lets say heat (especially in metal ammo cans) and fires. I definitely don't want to be a firefighter extinguishing a fire in the woods and have it explode near me. Someone brought up the point (no pun intended) on pen knives. That brought up a question to me as we (son and I) found swiss amry knives and box cutters/utility knives in caches. Would that be considered in the same classification as the ammo and weapons thing? I would think so. Brian As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

quote:Originally posted by mtn-man:I understand totally, skydiver and Jamethiel. I'm sure you remember the Woodsters Outdoors discussion regarding the potential cache in Augusta. I was very outspoken about that and my argument was totally along the lines of yours here. Anyone who followed that topic knows my stand on vacation caches -- no thanks. I guess I remember LB&MM complaining about not having enough caches, among all of the other complaining they did before they were banned. It seemed there were others, but I have not heard anyone lately. Your right about that. That's a good thing and it is good to hear!!! Ok, once again it was a hypothetical question then to a different situation. More or less had to do with distance caches rather than "Vacation Caches". There are those on here that have caches in their name, but that they do not maintain(others maintain them). They have been doing that before I even came along and it appears that it is "ok". As far as the vacation cache thing goes, Jeremy did state that they would be ok as long as certain requirements were met. Those requirements are stated in his post in that thread. I won't repeat them here. Maybe someone will markwell them or paste them here. I do not agree with placement of any cache that is not going to maintained or is placed with intentions of not being able to maintain it. I have noticed that the approvers are very much different in what they will allow and disallow. I think it all comes down to their own opinion on approving and not really any guidelines or regs. If so, then the guidelines change with the areas. Just my own observation. Brian As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

Ok my last on this bit and I'm out of here... quote:Originally posted by Jomarac5: I made a remark asking if it got there attention, yes. It was an ice breaker, there was no decption there. Perhaps if I titled it "Naked Girls" and then there were none, it would of been. I think this is a personal problem of yours...perhaps you will be able to overcome it... Brian As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

I did title my thread the way I intended it, If you aren't a techno geek, then don't come in.... Using the subject line to say hi is not the way it was intended? dadgum I must of missed that years ago in my "Computers 101" class...How could I have ever missed that?! Get real...this was my thread. I titled it the way I wanted it. No one has said they have a problem with it except you, which your reason is bogus and makes no sense. Please feel free to email me and we can discuss SPAM techniques. I will be happy to forward many exapmles to you... Brian As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

quote:Originally posted by Cannonlaw:I know that I am just contributing to this but what an interesting thread. It's like watching a couple fight in public. Your embarrassed to be hearing it but you can't look away. Like a train wreck eh? Brian As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

Puhlease..... Don't ever email anyone and say "Hi" in the subject. Cause you are using a SPAM technique.... Ok...now if I put in the Subject header of an email "Want to buy a car" , but I'm really trying to sll you a house in the email, then that is not deceptive? That's make no sense! By the way, I never mentioned anything about SPAM to enlarge your genitals... But if you feel someone gives a "Hi", and wants to sell you something is deceptive, then I don't think you know what deceptive is. deceptive causing one to believe what is not true or fail to believe what is true; "deceptive calm"; "a delusory pleasure" [syn: delusory] 2: tending to deceive or mislead either deliberately or inadvertently; "the deceptive calm in the eye of the storm"; "deliberately deceptive packaging"; "a misleading similarity"; "statistics can be presented in ways that are misleading" [syn: misleading] So someone is misleading in this case, when they said hi? I was misleading when I said "Calling all Techno Geeks"? What did you think or expect to be in the subject? Brian As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump