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GeckoGeek

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Everything posted by GeckoGeek

  1. quote:Originally posted by BeachBum22:I've seen a bunch of 'not found' reports by the pros that leave me wondering why the marker is still in the NGS database. OK, first off we have to separate a "benchmark" from a "handy structure" like a building. With a real benchmark, you have to find it and find that it's out of location (pushed over, etc.) for the NGS to log it as distroyed. A building is eaiser since it's a bit hard to misplace a whole building. So for actual disks, you may find "not founds" and it stays on the records. Because a "not found" is just that. >>> We've also got buildings and towers around here that have been gone for 30 years but are still listed..... <<< File a report with Deb and Geocaching.com. Take a picture of where the building used to be and send it in.
  2. Hey, I hear your gripe, but I’ve learned a few things. I’d say the #1 reason is that they don’t want to erase a mark just because some bucko couldn’t read the map right that day. For disks the rule is you must have some kind of positive identification. Either you find the disk itself or you can clearly identify that the item it’s attached do (building) is gone. Here the guy is going to a location and not finding it and guessing as to the reason. So it’s a “not found” with a strong susption of destroyed. Sure, the guy’s a pro, but don’t you have lamebrains in your line of work? Haven’t you ever had a bad day? It’s also possible that this was from a time before anyone had a category for such things and the data was transcribed without any judgment as to it’s status. For Geocaching purposes, I’d log it as destroyed "per NGS", although I’d hope you’d take your GPS to the site and confirm the location. It would be interesting to see what Deb has to say about it.
  3. quote:Originally posted by Black Dog Trackers:Some people tend to be more interested in their count than reporting accuracy. Clearly monument KK0185 should have been reported as Destroyed, as opposed to Found or Not-found. If this change were made in geocaching, more people would be likely to fix their reports too. Unless you see something I missed I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt. They probably didn't know. After all, they found the disk right?
  4. quote:Originally posted by RACooper:I found 3 of about 9 marks I was looking for Saturday. The rest were either previously marked destroyed, or would be in the middle of the construction zone (where I'm not going to venture - I like my head attached to my shoulders and not in jail for trespassing, thankyouverymuch). I guess my question after all this background is: should I report these marks to NGS as "not found", with notes about the construction, or hope that the have been reported by the construction surveyors? I haven't seen any new info about these marks since about 1995; most were "Recovered in good condition" at that time. I would not file any report with NGS about the BMs you can't get access to due to construction. That is temporary by nature and a professional surveyor probably can gain access to them as needed. I would suggest a note in the GeoCaching site to alert other searchers, so nobody makes a cross-town trip to find they can't get to them. The BMs you can get access to but were unable to find you might consider a "not found" with NGS with a note about the construction. At least that would alert someone that it may not be an easy find. Normally, I don't think the NGS is interested in a "found" when it's only been 7 years since the last visit, but since there is construction in the area, it might be helpful to know that it survived if the construction is complete. If the directions to finding the mark has changed, then I'm sure the NGS would appricate an update in the directions since the rail lines are no longer there as reference. Just my 2¢.
  5. quote:Originally posted by Black Dog Trackers:JeremyA - 1. If you stand on the side of the building where the flagpole is nearest the street, how many feet away does your GPS say the mark is and is it within 50 feet or so? (This is an adjusted station, so the position should be much more accurate than your GPS.) If the current flagpole is the station, then your closest approach would be within 50 feet or so, demonstrating that you've got the right building. Since I have the waypoint in my GPS I walk around two sides of the building. If the GPS keeps pointing to the building, then I know that I have the right building (I'm not very good at estimating distances.) quote:2. How old is that building; older than (or equal to) 1929 or not? If it is that old, and it looks like it is, then you've got the same structure. I'm sure that if you entered the building, they'd be proud to tell you when it was built. It can frequently be found on a name plate near the main entrance. You can claim this is "found" on GeoCaching.com. I'll have to check on NGS requirements.
  6. This reply from Deb Brown (NGS): The criteria for listing a landmark station as destroyed is a little more relaxed than a station disk. For landmark stations such as a tower, just send me a photo in JPEG format of the area where the tower was and please include the PID and Designation of the station. For disks, a photo of the remnants of the disk is required. If the setting is there but no disk, then use the online form to list it NOT FOUND or POOR and in the text portion of the form state what you found. I hope this helps. deb ------------------ It sounds to me like you have what's needed to report the tower destroyed.
  7. quote:Originally posted by Raouljan: Besure to search the board for what "recovery" really means and how to file a recovery note Ok, so what does "recovery" mean when applied to structures such as a flagpole or light? Even if we were to gain access to the roof our equipment couldn't tell us if the object had been moved 6 feet. I've looked over a number of old threads but I don't remember that discussed in detail. Given that some of these stations where setup in the 1930, there is valid concern that the object located may not be in exactly the same position as originally monumented.
  8. quote:Originally posted by mustanglx:The question for KW2873 is that it was a Fire Tower. When I hiked to the site there was a sign that said "The site of the Sherman Mtn Fire Tower, 1926-1976". There is no Fire Tower and all that I could find was an old foundation. Should I log this as a "not Found" or "Destroyed"? I would log it at Destroyed both in Geo and NGS. The site has positivly been located and identified, but structure has been removed so positional integrety has been permanently lost. Note that in order to report to NGS as destroyed, you have to send an email to Deb Brown. As such, I don't think it's possible to incorrectly report a distruction short of manufacturing evidence. I would strongly urge reporting SOMETHING to the NGS. Otherwise if a tower was constructed on this site someone might use it as a marker not realizing that it's not the original marker. quote:The next BM, KW2874, I could not find the station mark but I was able to find No.1 Referance mark. I searched for No.2 but could not find it either. "Not found", "Found", "Destroyed"? "Not found" with notes. quote:The last BM in question is about how I should notify NGS about a found BM that was logged "Not found" back in 1966. BM KW2875 I was able to find the station mark and ref. NO.2 mark. I looked for Ref. No.1 but it looked like it would be in on private property so I could not find it. The direction to the station are no longer good, "Found" with notes. By all means, update the directions. I don't know to what level you need to go to on your new directions. With the advent of GPS it seems unnecessary to go into the same level of detail that the old descriptions had in them unless the approach is tricky. I would concentrate on directions for the "last mile" or so to the site.
  9. quote:Originally posted by Colorado Papa:Now here is a bad example of "FOUND" by two different cachers and not being reported to NGS. http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.asp?PID=KK0185 Indeed. Anyone contact these searchers? I would but I'm about to travel to the land of few caches, no benchmarks and slow dial-up connections.
  10. quote:Originally posted by Colorado Papa:I don't see how NGS can have a poor condtion catagory for a location that is missing the disk and we have to log a "NO fIND". Until things get standardized, take a FOUND credit. And that's my opinion. Actually, I think I understand the NGS's position. 1) A station can only declared as destroyed if and only if there is absolutely no doubt that it's destroyed. For a disk that would require positively identifying the disk and noting that it's out of position. With the photograph all we know for sure is a spot that could have held this particular disk. It would require a number of measurements to positively identify this hole as being the hole that held the disk. 2) But we still have a hole that is small enough that it still may mark the location. That is, we still have a position even if it is unlabeled. If this hole can be positively identified, then a new disk could be inserted. So in this case it would seem that "poor" is the proper designation. (Keep in mind some BMs are labeled as "copper bolt" with no disk.) 3) Not founds are generally not taken as destroyed because there are a number of reasons that someone couldn't find a station that is in fact still there. 4) In this particular situation, it seems the only way to get the station destroyed is to prove that the building was demolished. In that case there is no doubt that the position has been lost even if the disk is never discovered. So for NGS purposes, this is "poor". Arrrrgh! I'm starting to think like a government worker!!!
  11. I forgot to add. Something else I'd like is to combine the NGS datasheets with the logs here on GeoCaching. That way I can concentrate on finding marks no one else has as well as getting in idea if a mark is going to be difficult to find. Anybody know of good tools to merge the data without bulking everything back up?
  12. An update: So far CacheMate seems like the direction to go, but I find it's maximum description length to be a problem. I'm trying to see how much I can slim down the NGS datasheets. Right now I'm working on the datasheet side rather then the GPX side because given my crude programming skills it's easier to process to the raw data.
  13. quote:What is the main difference between a palm and a pocket pc if there is one? What's the main difference between Mac and PC? The Palm is a nice, simple yet effective interface. It's been around longer and so far still has a larger market share. You'll be amazed at what a Palm can do with just 8MB and batteries that can last for over a month (for models with monocrome screens.) Pocket PC (previously WinCE) is like desktop Windows. Requires hefty hardware and memory. Some find it a bit complex to work though all the menus. You can probably find a cheap Palm, but you'll probably have to lay out some bucks for Pocket. First I'd suggest you locate software then then pick the OS that runs it.
  14. quote:Originally posted by sixthings:i have 2 marks that i have reported as destroyed. one was on the wall of a bank that got torn down in '34. on the other one, the concrete monument that housed the mark is broken to pieces, and is really not usable to anybody anymore. i don't think i will ever report anything as destroyed to the NGS; In the situations you've mentioned, I would. It doesn't do anyone any good to have bad data floating around. I've got a situation where I know the building was demolished and replaced with a new building of the same name. Someone coming along later may not realize it's a different mark. It looks to me that you are not the deciding factor in "destroying" a mark. You submit to the NGS and if they think it's proof enough, they'll do it. quote:regarding TU014, i would log it as Not Found. your coordinates are adjusted, so i am sure you are in the right place. however, even with a clear sky and a WAAS GPSr, you have a 10' radius to deal with. it's possible that it's been covered in mulch, sod, or asphalt, like kk2111. It's a bit hard to cover a traffic island. I've found 3 marks mentioned that point it to where it should be. Since it appears to have been on top of the sidewalk, any lowering of the sidewalk would have forced the removal of the disk. I should mention the traffic island is all cement - no grass to hide things.
  15. I just read that CacheMate just released version 2.0 which includes sorting by distance from a location. I'll have to check into it some more.
  16. quote:Originally posted by BernieHunt:I'm currently using a Sportrac Color and I have a lot of problems getting a solid lock on coordinates. Under tree cover .... I'll have to defer to the more experienced, but the satellite positioning can play a big role as well. The other day I had a heck of a time getting a lock of any kind. The unit saw 3 satellites and I had a good view of the sky, but the 3 sats were all in a line. I had to wait a good 5 minutes or more before things moved enough that the unit could come up with a position. Likewise if the sats are all in the part of the sky that's obstructed, your going to have problems. I keep reading about how they'll put GPS into phones so that they can be located in an emergency and just laugh. I get them feeling the people pushing the idea don't use a GPS themselves.
  17. quote:Originally posted by peter:Just so you don't spend money buying software for downloadable maps you should check the specs again on the 201. It has no capability for downloading maps. Odd, I could have sworn I saw something that indicated it had that ability when I bought it.... If I can find someone with the software I might give it a shot. Worst that can happen is that it doesn't go.
  18. quote:Originally posted by sranddboggny.us:what else might you be looking for? OK, here's the situation I'm anticipating: Next summer I'll be off on vacation with family. I'll know in advance where we'll be, but I won't know for sure what we will be doing day to day since it's a group decision. I can use my laptop during the evenings for prep, but I'll only have dial-up and I need to limit my time. During the day I'll have to rely on my palm since a laptop is just too bulk to haul around and still enjoy one's self. I've also got my more immediate need to track my local hunting. I want to quite having to print out each site I plan to visit. I also need a more systematic approach. In trying to work from the website I find that I keep looking at the same BMs over and over. My "wish list": - A database of all the benchmarks/stations in a given area. I'd have to download it via my laptop, but it needs to be reasonably sized. - The data needs to be editable on the Palm. The problem with downloading static data such as screens of Geocaching.com is that it's hard to mark any notes or cross off things that have been done. - I also want to be able to look at the details of any item I'll rank it as to difficulty (it is on the sidewalk or is it a 30 minute hike?) and if there's some indication that it may be hard to find (someone logged "not found"). - I want to be able to note if the coordinates are "scaled" or "adjusted". - I want to be able to indicate what kind of BM is this - if it's a disk, or structure. I know that's there, but a lot of times I see "not listed" when the text shows it's a disk. - I want to be able to list BM's by their location from "here" or along a route. I guess I could use my GPS to do that once it's loaded, but it would be nice to do that on the Palm as well. - I need a way to pass the coordinates to my GPS. Right now it looks like I have to take a file and send it to another program. I'll do that if I have to, but it would be nice to do it from my database above. - I'd like the database to track if I've completed a hunt. That way I can drop it from the list as I select my next one. - I want the ability to list the results of my hunt. Not just a place to put the info, but to be able to show me which items I need to input into geocaching.com. I'm sure there's others, but that's a start.
  19. quote: it's possible that the RESET exists under the ground somewhere, therefore it's "Not Found", and not "Destroyed". Should I have listed TU0414as "not found"? I'm certain the disk is gone, but the post may remain if the traffic island was dug up. Is it good enough to report as destroyed to NGS?
  20. quote:Client has stated a few odd requirements. The GPS must have...+ A startup screen identifying the unit as belonging to the company + NO BASE MAP, but user-loadable detailed maps + No removable memory, whatever maps are loaded have to fit in built-in memory. These requirements are meant to make the units less useful outside of the company -- thus less attractive for pilferage. I have a Geko 201 and can comment on the following: - Power up display: Yes, but it's set from the menu and is decribed in the owner's manual. - No base map: Check. I understand I have a 1/2Meg for uploadable maps but have not done so yet. - No removable memory: Check. Still, I have to agree with the others. I think your client is laboring under some misconceptions. He thinks these restrictions will keep his employees from swiping the units when I had to pay $120 for exactly the same thing? What's wrong with this picture? I don't think these restrictions will make a bit of difference to what happens to them. Look for the cheapest unit that will do what's needed and forget about the rest. Otherwise he's paying more money for a unit that still gets stolen. If he wants to protect the units, "vandalize" them by painting them some horrid color that hurts re-sale value and can't be used without others knowing where the unit came from.
  21. quote:Originally posted by Colorado Papa:Anyhow, the bug bit me, but I do want to do a thorough job and not jump to conclusions like I did couple weeks with http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.asp?PID=jk1230. I do enjoy the research of old maps and pictures. As a point of note, you may want to go back and edit your entries so that it's a single entry. Otherwise your stats are off and your erroneous information is still published. quote:However, of the 700,000 plus, why isn't the number reduced by the ones that have been reported as destroyed? I really do believe credit should be given for ones that are reported as destroyed and have furnished proof such as http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.asp?PID=JK0244. Is that one truly destroyed? If the pin is still there, then the location is still marked, just missing it's identification tag. It's my understanding that it's when a station's positional integrity is compromised is when it's considered destroyed. What bothers me are ones more like TU1183 or TU1177 or TU1178 where two entries show that the station is gone. For whatever reason the database shows them as "normal" when the text clearly indicates they should be "skull" stations.
  22. quote:Originally posted by RogBarn:... let me say that the software solutions for benchmarking are not very good right now. Hopefully, someone will step in and help out. At any rate, this is what I do: Get the datasheets in zipped form from the yearly archived benchmark section of the NGS site. You will need the misc file that includes the list of counties to know what file number represents which county for your state. BMGPX, Watcher and EasyGPS are software programs that have been referenced around here, sorry but I don't have time right now to look up links. Maybe someone else can help. BMGPX will take datasheets and create a GPX file. Watcher can read and write GPX files but since it is designed for caches and not benchmarks, it is far from a good solution. However it can be used to zero in on a area of benchmarks to help make a smaller file. EasyGPS can read GPX files and can upload the waypoints to your GPS. There is some small bug somewhere and you will need to do a quick fix to some (all?) GPX files before trying to use EasyGPS to read them. I think ClayJar (maker of Watcher) has the details, I have to look it up every time I need to use it. Thanks for that info. I'll give it a shot. Since the subject drifted a bit, I thought I'd start a new subject line. Any ideas on Palm software? I find the descriptions are very important to locating the station. GPS devices that I know don't hold that kind of info. I did play with CacheMate. It looks like a workable solution but I'm disappointed it doesn't allow me to sort the listings by location, nor does it talk to a GPS unit. I will be doing some traveling, but I wanted to limit the use of the laptop and use my Palm for most of my work once I have a large database loaded.
  23. quote:Originally posted by RobAGD:As for Antennas, something I have been playing with is putting a stock antenna on a small fiberglass rod attached to my pack so that its clear of my body blocking its signal reception. All you need is a good shielded cable to make an extender from your GPS to the remote antenna. The signal loss even in good cable at GPS frequencies is very high. It won't take much cable to cancel out the extra gain in the antenna. Since you don't want to get too directional with a GPS antenna, I think most of your gain is going to come from a larger collection area - translation: bigger antenna.
  24. quote:Originally posted by RogBarn:Even better is to use the NGS datasheets, BMGPX and EasyGPS to download a whole county at a time. I'd have to become a paid member of Geocaching.com to get that, right? Also, does EasyGPS support the comments and all? I'd never find half of the things by GPS along.
  25. quote:Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies - True....my point, which I failed to make, was that most PDA's support Windows CE while Palm does not....therefore, according to some people who have advised me...MORE stuff is available for the Windows CE. Unless things have drastically shifted while I was asleep, tell "some people" not to quit their day job. While WinCE/Pocket PC has more bells and whistles, Palm has been at it longer and still has over 50% of the market although I think it's eroding. Microsoft may win, but for now it's still playing catch-up. As for applications, take a look at PalmGear and then go find something like it for WinCE/Pocket PC. And compare prices. Not just of the software, but of the units. If you don't mind monochrome "available light" screens, you can find something nice in a Palm for $100 - $150 easy. Even $50 used on eBay. A set of AAA will last a month. And don't get too caught up in the amount of memory. Palm make a few Megs go a LONG way. The entire New Testament only takes 310KB. Windows is, well, Windows. As you may guess, I have a Palm. But I still use Windows on the desktop, so I'm not a "anything but MS" type.
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