John&Deere

Looks like Blue Eagle was onto something and Res's track log and pics comfirm it. Being a decent hike the dogs would love this. I didn't know how I was gonna lift them over the fence as they both come in at over 100 lbs each. Think I may also wait for the warmer weather so when do you want to head out BQ. Hey John&Deere, that sounds great! How does a Saturday afternoon in April sound? BQ Works for me.

After reading Flintstones trashing of me and instead of repling in the forum I stated I was going to mail him personally. Well had to send him 2 mails cause Groundspeak limits your mail from the profile to 5000 letters. Have yet to hear a responce from him here or in my personal mail. Guess he got my point. Funny how the canary isn't chirping anymore now that no one has took his advice on how to get to this cache.

Looks like Blue Eagle was onto something and Res's track log and pics comfirm it. Being a decent hike the dogs would love this. I didn't know how I was gonna lift them over the fence as they both come in at over 100 lbs each. Think I may also wait for the warmer weather so when do you want to head out BQ.

Man, I have heard some good thoughts on this subject and then I have heard some soapbox whining like this rubbish. What makes you think that your asssumptions are any more truthful than that of the CO? Blue Eagle said that he found a wide open path to this cache location. Do you honestly want me to believe that the same people that spent thousands of dollars in putting double fences and signs around their property merely "forgot" to put some more after a certain point? This "little crack" that you are talking about is a wooded area that covers many acres, not some trail behind a house. If you spent any time at all analyzing the situation you would see that the fences surrounding the quarry are new and well maintained, where as there appears to be a fence that is quite old and weathered at the point where I listed the coords! The reason I posted the pic was to reassure people that we never had to cross those signs. Another interesting thought is brought to mind regarding the sign locations. Why would they put these signs on fences that are supposedly already inside their property? When we had the quarry between us and Walkers Line there were signs on that side too, who were those signs for? Would they put those signs up to warn themselves to "Keep Out" of their own property? Or could it be that they were warning people that were not on their property to keep out? Try to see things with a little more logic, do you think that we are children that are ruled by impulse? You have met us both, we are average people that have families of our own and we definitely aren't thrill seekers, we aren't looking for trouble. Despite the fact that you know this, you spout off that we would kill animals to get to a cache! That is offensive and uncalled for, and it really makes you sound like a jealous younger brother. Please don't use these forums to insult me and my fellow cachers. These forums are here to discuss issues, to help educate, not to try and sound like a tough guy when you know that several local Geo-Heavies are listening. Do you hear the respect in the tone of the cachers that you admire? Most of the people on this thread are asking questions and demonstrating a lot of patience, try to follow suit. I hope you realize that people have feelings and don't appreciate being belittled. Moral of the story: If you feel uneasy about a cache that has been approved, don't do it! Mare and I felt comfortable with the "risk" as it were, and so we chose to move forward. If you wouldn't I can respect that too. There are going to be many caches where I am either unable or unwilling to make the journey, but some will. This is a community game and as such we can't attack each other whenever we disagree, but we can always hash it out on the forums!! Sorry for any trouble that I have caused!! Think that in the name of "public courtesy" I will reply to this rant with a personal email.

Well put NorthenPenguin. When an old fence or exsisting fence does come into play CO's always (or should) mention that permission has been granted, or the trail in, or in one case of a cache I did a waypoint to turn on the trail as there was no fence between the private property and the crown land the cache was on. I myself remember doing a cache although it was not far from the road it was definatley bordering a farmers field and also near some ones driveway. I left because it just felt uncomforable being there. A few weeks I met the owner and mentioned it and he laughed and said his mom and dad lived there. Had a talk and the next day he added that to his cache page. The cache got a lot more hits after that. The problem here is the lack of info from the cache owner as to the trailhead entry point. First he mentioned Walkers Line but I see it is now Guelph line on the cache page. Think he may mean the Church as there are no signs but you will still be hiking into an area that people don't want you in you just taking a longer route in. Didn't realize till todays visit that the whole area is surronded by No Trespassing signs or the Danger signs. No trespassing I think represents private property but the huge amount of DANGER signs wel lets see now could it be because there is something dangerous going on in the area. As more than one person has mentioned there is a quarry in the inside area and sometime blasting is done at these sights I would assume. The no trespassing could cost you a few bucks in fines but what is the risk of the Danger signs. Some of these ridges that the CO wants you to walk could be next to the quarry and ready to collapse. Or mabe it's not your lucky day and the dynomite starts going off To be honest I think the CO being a newbie is overwhelmed at the responce and in all honesty may have thought it was a good cache in a proper area. Not sure what he told the reviewer to get it back up but the reviewer is at the mercy of the info he is given. That is why it is up to the caching public to get info out there for the CO to claify himself and the reviewer to ask the right questions of the CO. Happy New Year to all and may all your caches be smileys in the new year

I have 2 dogs that when not doing drive bys that day are out with me and a hike this far I would most certainly like to take them along. So NOPE don't jump, climb, trample, over fences. My theory is the fence must be there for a reason, usually to mark private or non-public areas. I have a fence in my yard for a reason. Generally speaking the area is a quarry which may use explosives in warmer weather if it is still active hence the DANGER not just NO TRESPASSING. Bottom line is if I want to do this I will have to climb over a fence.....seems like a clue to me that I am not wanted in the area. As for the excuse that others do it I don't by it........if all your friends robbed banks would it make it OK. As Keith Watson mentioned at the start of this forum "What's worse the guy who puts the cache on private property or the guy who ignores the signs and goes in anyway." I'm resposible for my choices and not others. Flintstones log states you guys were "more determined than ever" to get it so it was more important to get the FTF than to wait and see how this plays out. Again just my opinion and just worth 2 cents like everyone elses. Still love your first DNF log as an all time fav. though

Capjap, Buttons and I went this morning and circled looking for an area to get in. Came up Derry from Guelph line and the are signs posted for both "No Trespassing and "Danger" posted on the fence. Left onto Walkers Line between Derry and 12 Side road there are many "DANGER" signs posted and it is heavly fenced in. After 12 Sideroad is the Quarry entrance with a "No Tresspasing" sign. Went down to where the stream comes out as the cache is actually on it and yep "No Tresspassing". Hmmmmmmmmmmmm circle around to Guelph Line and all the while there is "Danger" or no "Tresspassing signs" Get to Guelph line and Derry and there is a church with a cemetary and no signs saying to keep out and Parking to boot. Kinda makes sence to us that if all 4 sides of the area have signs keeping you out, than they don't want you in there so looking for that little crack in the system where someone messed up and didn't put a sign seemed kinda dumb if you look at the big picture. Loved the FTF log where they both mentioned they "only had to jump 1 fence" man that is freakin hillarious. And to post a pic of the Danger sign. Guess if 50 yards to the right of you is a Danger sign and 50 yards to the left of you there is a Danger sign and if there is only 1 fence to climb............this must be the way in. Pretend all you want about there being a way in, if you circle the area all the signs say STAY OUT. Just my opinion though. Won't be back here again...................I have to wonder what the CO said to the reviewer to get it unarchived.

I agree Ted. I was insulted by the "pathetic" remark. Gee that 1 cache he found must have been a good one to make him an expert. Of course under the "profile information" his comment is "I hate you and everything you represent"..............might be a clue where this guy is coming from. Remember a cacher in your area like that but he has faded away I believe. I hurt myself doing one of his caches on private property. Stubbed my toe or was it my knee.....can't quite recall now. J&D