kiltsurfer

Hey fellow Geocachers, I am currently working on my Masters of Science degree in Management. One of my assignments is to study a business or organization that has experienced a change. I have chosen to study how Geocaching.com started, the early years and how this little online dialogue developed into a global sport. I would like to gather some basic information about the people that Geocache. The survery should only take 3 - 5 minutes to complete and all questions are optional. If you have a few free minutes, can you complete the survery at http://trekkin.com/geosurvey/ THANKS Kiltsurfer (Scott)

Hey fellow Geocachers, I am currently working on my Masters of Science degree in Management. One of my assignments is to study a business or organization that has experienced a change. I have chosen to study how Geocaching.com started, the early years and how this little online dialogue developed into a global sport. I would like to gather some basic information about the people that Geocache. The survery should only take 3 - 5 minutes to complete and all questions are optional. If you have a few free minutes, can you complete the survery at http://trekkin.com/geosurvey/ THANKS Kiltsurfer (Scott)

THIS SURVEY IS NOT APPROVED BY GEOCACHING.COM OR Groundspeak (added this to the post to reduce confusion) Hey fellow Geocachers, I am currently working on my Masters of Science degree in Management. One of my assignments is to study a business or organization that has experienced a change. I have chosen to study how Geocaching.com started, the early years and how this little online dialogue developed into a global sport. I would like to gather some basic information about the people that Geocache. The survey should only take 3 - 5 minutes to complete and all questions are optional. If you have a few free minutes, can you complete the survey at http://trekkin.com/geosurvey/ THANKS Kiltsurfer (Scott)

The Phatboyz are setting up a new set of caches that we hope will challenge you. The Phatboyz have been caching for a whole year now and we have seen a wide variety of caches and cache containers. We are hoping to use what we have learned to push you guys a little bit more. We are also working on a series of caches that you will need to visit in order to solve the other caches. The hard part about these caches is that we are not going to tell you which caches have which clues. So take this as your official notice: When you go to a Phatboyz cache check the container and the first page of the log book for special clues or numbers. We will try to make it stand out if you are looking for it. We are not going to add any clues to caches that are already placed. Also just a few numbers for our first year of Geocaching: Deity_Steve 167 finds Bilbo19 400 finds (should hit on anniversary date) Jerber4 100 finds Kiltsurfer 333 (I still have two caches to log) Most finds in a single day: 71 Bilbo19, Deity_Steve and Kiltsurfer at the Spokane Cache Machine. Started 6:00am ended 10:30pm Also in the last year the Phatboyz have lost over 150lbs. Not saying we lost that all by Geocaching, but it sure did help. I had back surgery last year right before I started Geocaching. Geocaching helped me heal and get my body moving. Don’t worry the Phatboyz are still the Phatboyz and will be around for a while. We (I) really want to thank everyone in this community for being great. This is a fun sport and I really hope it stays around for a long time. See you on the trail. Kiltsurfer of Team Phatboyz.

I bought my 60CS with the Auto kit for 531.00 at getfeetwet.com plus I got a free tShirt

I am looking right now and this is what I am seeing Offroute: 60c 384.95 60CS 429.95 Ecost.com 60c $449.99 60cs $499.99 buy.com 60c 378.94 60cs 421.94 tvnav.com 60c $380 60cs $420 jjielectronics.com 60c $379.95 60cs 429.95 http://store.yahoo.com/compwestusa/gagpsmap60.html 60c $365 60cs $405 GPSdiscount.com 60c $367 60cs $415 GPSnow.com 60c $369.95 60cs $409.95 gpscity.com 60c $369.95 60cs $409.95 boatfix.com 60c $372.08 60cs $413.43 www.getagps.com 60c $357.99 60cs $396.99 onlinemarine.com 60c $367.86 60cs $408.74 gulfcoastmarinesupplies.com 60c $362.49 60cs $405.00 www.getfeetwet.com I can't get the site to come up right now This is the latest that I have seen. I will be ordering mine this weekend, please let me know if you see anything cheaper. THANKS Kiltsurfer

So I went to Garmin's website and asked them, this is the reply I got..... Thank you for your inquiry. Unfortunately, there is not a method to add more memory in the 60CS. The unit uses internal Flash memory and does not use external cards for memory storage. We do have a new GPSMAP76CS coming out soon that offers more memory which offers 115MB of internal memory. http://www.garmin.com/products/gpsmap76cs/ Thank you and best Regards, Stacy Derks Product Support Specialist GARMIN International 1200 E. 151st Street Olathe, KS 66062 USA http://www.garmin.com/ tel. 800/800.1020 913/397.8200 fax. 913/397.0836 Which is what I expected them to say. I guess they need to keep that for their next model upgrade.

Has anyone added/changed the memory in a GPSr? I am thinking about getting a new GPSr (don't want to start a new topic on which one) but wanted to know if anyone has changed the memory? Memory is dirt cheap, why do GPSr have so little? I have a little memory stick that holds a gig of data (1024mb). It's small and light. Why does it seem to be a big deal when a GPSr has 56mb or 115mb when it's really not that much. So has anyone done this or is this just to wierd of a topic for me to ask here? THANKS Kiltsurfer

Well that just sucks!!! That was a great cache to talk about, it stands out of the 27 that I did that day. You did a great job on that cache and I think you should replace it. Let's hope this guy gets bored and moves on....

Here's a question on nearly the same topic... I'm getting ready to buy a new 60C or 60CS and the same software. I have 3 computers that I want to load this software on (Home, Work and Laptop) will I have a problem with this, or do I need to buy 3 different copies? Also I heard someone say that this is only good for one GPSr. Do I need to buy another copy for my wife's GPSr? What happens if I trade my GPSr in for a new model? The reason I am asking, is I have only been doing this for a year, and I am on my 3rd GPSr and getting ready to buy my 4th (bought a cheap one, then a good one with problems and switched it with another good one). THANKS Kiltsurfer

I would like to ask for a ruling on this one... A geocacher no playing the game has moved the spud. He owns the cache the spud was in, and broke park hours to recover the spud. He is going to place the spud in another cache some time this morning. TeamSouth did a lot of planning and placed the spud in cache that was good until Tuesday morning. What should be the ruling of this move? If he (the owner of the cache) did not move the spud it would sit there until Tuesday at 10:00. Can owners of caches restrict their caches from the game? Here is his post: 2/1/2004 nolenator retrieved it from Baxter's Camp Long Cache Redeux I watched the previous game of Puget Sound Geo Hot Potato get way out of hand. I woke up this morning I noticed that the potato was placed in my cache. As the owner of Baxter's Camp Long Cache Redeux, I decided that I don't want my cache to be used for this game. The front gates to the park were open at 0600 today for the days climbing classes. I did not put it in Troop 591 because the area is getting geothrashed quite a bit and the area is having a tough time rebounding. I will place it in a nearby cache sometime this morning. Peace, Nolenator

I like what Happy said about going by what is on the geocaching.com webpage for the cache, but if a park is closed at 9:00 and it's not listed on the cache page, the park is still closed and should be off limits until the park reopens. Just because the cache owner did not put the park hours on the cache page doesn't mean we can break the park rules.

I will put together a list and email it too you. For me, if a person can get the cache in a wheel chair I rate it as a 1, if not it's a least a 1.5. I'm not sure if everyone is doing this, but that is how I rate my caches.

Okay guys I have been thinking about this a lot. The key of the game is to have fun. Most of us have lives outside of Geocaching, but we also love geocaching. I was working on the rules below when I saw TravisL posting, I have combine both for the following. I don't mean to over step anyone, and these are just my thoughts, but here they are. As I remember the game “Hot Potato” the point of the game was catch the potato and get rid of it as soon as you can. You didn’t want to keep it at all if you could help it. The point wasn’t to find the potato it was to get rid of the potato. So let’s set up our game like the real game. SHORT VERSION: Each team will place the potato in the other county for one point. The opposing team has two hours (night hours count differently) to remove the potato from the cache before giving up more points. They will then place the potato in the opposing teams area, and the game will repeat until the game is called. ONE POTATO The TB TWO TEAMS King County Pierce County RULES: 1. Object The object of the game is to keep "the potato" (a travel bug) in the opposing team's territory as long as possible. Points are awarded for placing the potato in the opposing team’s territory and for extra time in the opposing team’s territory 2. Underlying principles a) Each player and team shall endeavor to follow the spirit of the rules, and shall do their best to keep the game fun for all other players and the opposing team. b ) All rules and traditions of geocaching shall apply. Caches should remain as unaffected as possible by this game, except for logbook entries. c) All applicable laws, regulations, and rules shall apply, including but not limited to posted park hours, parking rules, and traffic laws. d) No player or team shall try to conceal the potato or any cache, nor shall they engage in any attempt to deceive, mislead, or misdirect any other player or team. 3. Teams The players are divided geographically in two teams, North and South, divided by the a line along Pierce county's northern border, from the Mason/Pierce/Kitsap county point, east to SR 410. (see map) 4. Team membership Team members may declare themselves members of a team before the game starts. After the game starts, team membership is determined by the location of the earliest cache in the game area that the cacher has logged on Geocaching.com. 5. Boundaries The playing field is the area enclosed by a line, starting from the southwest corner: - From the intersection of N 47° and SR 165, north along SR 165 and SR 410 into Enumclaw, - Through Enumclaw northwest eight blocks on SR 164, - From Enumclaw northward up SR 169 to W 122°, - North up W 122° to I-90, - Westward along I-90 to Lake Washington, around the northern end of Mercer Island (all of Mercer Island is on the playing field), - then westward along I-90 to Royal Brougham Way, - continuing straight into Elliot Bay, - Westward along the Seattle-Bremerton ferry route, but continuing through Sinclair Inlet to the western intersection of SR 16 and SR 3 along a line from N 47.5284, W 122.69247 (in the inlet) to N 47.52532, W 122.70467 (on SR-3), - Southwestward along SR 3 to the Kitsap/Mason county border, - South along the Mason county border to the Pierce/Thurston/Mason county border - Southeasterly along the Pierce county border to Fort Lewis (at the railroad crossing of the Nisqually River), - Southeasterly along a line drawn to the intersection of SR 507 and N 47°, - East along N 47° to SR 165 6. SCORING: 1. One point is earned for placing the potato in a cache in the other county. 2. One point for each hour the potato sits in the cache after the first two. (If the potato is placed in a cache at 1:00pm, at 3:00pm the other team gets another point and again at 4:00, points will continue to be earned every hour until the TB is removed from the cache) 3. HOURS: If the potato is placed and logged before 9:59pm the above rules apply. a. If the potato is placed between 10:00pm-11:59pm and is not picked up and logged by 3:00am only one point will be earned until 6:00am the next day. This is for the first day only. b. If the potato is placed and logged between 12midnight-5:59am no points will no be earned for time for the first day only. If the potato is placed in a cache during this time, and is still in the cache at 7:00am, one point will be earned. As well as each hour the potato sits in the cache. c. Parks and other hour restrictions on caches will be followed. No time points will be earned while a cache is not accessible. (if a park is closed from 7:pm-7am, no points will be earned during this time. If the potato is placed at 6:30pm and is still there at 8:30am (2 hours) the team earns one point). 4. TERRAIN: For terrain levels 1-3.5 there are no special rules. If the terrain is 4+ no points will be awarded for time. The team will only earn one point for placing the potato in the cache no other points will be earned. 5. DIFFICULTY: If the cache is a puzzle or mulit-cache no points will be earned for time. The team will only earn one point for placing the potato in the cache no other points will be earned. 6. WEATHER: If a cache is located in a location that weather effects the cache, no points will be earned for time. If the cache is located somewhere in the snow or flood area, where the terrain level jumps because of weather, then no points will be earned for time. If a cache has a terrain level 3 in the summer, but you need snow shoes to do it in winter, the level has changed. This rule if for changes of terrain based on changes the last more than a day. If an area is flooded for only a few hours one day, time still counts, but if it last for longer than 24 hours, the all time point will be removed while the cache is restricted. 7. LOGGING: All times starts and stops when the log is posted on potato tracking website. a. When logging the potato you must include the time you were at the cache and the time of the log you are making. (example: I picked up the potato at 3:00pm from ABCD cache and I am logging this at 3:40pm……) The time starts and stops at 3:40 the time of the log. The other time if for other they my have been there right after you, so they know how much they missed you by). b. You must also include the total number of points the potato just earned and the total score (you will be score keeper for picking up the potato). (example cont: …….The potato just earned 3 points (1 for placing the potato and 2 points for the four hours the potato was in the cache (2 free hours plus 1 point for each other hour). Current score North=5 South=5 (2+3). Tie game. 8. Self Scoring: If a team places the potato in a cache in their county, they will give points to the other team earn as if the opposing team placed it. If team south picks up the potato from Pierce County and places it in another cache in Pierce County, King County will get the points for both caches as well as points for time earned. 7. Timing The potato is considered “placed” at the time the placement log is posted on Geocaching.com. 8. Duration The game will begin at noon on January 24, 2004. The game will end at midnight following February 29, 2004. 9. Restrictions on placement The Potato will not be placed in any of the following types of caches: 1. in a cache above 1500' elevation 2. on a military base 3. Virtual, Locationless, Event, Members-only, archived or disabled caches 4. on an indian reservation 5. on an island with no bridge from the mainland 6. outside of the game boundaries 7. in a cache created or posted to Geocaching.com after the start of the game 8. in a cache not posted on Geocaching.com 9. in a cache that it has already been placed in during the game. 10 Movement 1. A team may only move the potato when the potato is in their county. The key is not to hold the potato, you are only holding the potato when the potato is located in a cache in your county. 2. A player may not move the potato again until 5 other player on his team places the potato in a cache, (hand off are not placing it in a cache) or 5 days have pass (days are 24 hours and time starts when you place or hand off the potato. If you hand/place the cache at 2:00pm Monday you can touch the potato again Friday at 2:01pm) 3. A player may hand off to any other player on his team. Hand off do not count as placing in a cache. 12. Logging movement and placement After each move, the potato should be logged as soon as possible. Logs must include the exact time when the log is being made (not the time when the potato was placed!), because that is the time that is used to determine points. You must also include the number of points just earned and the current score of each team. 13. Referee Gaviidae will oversee the game. What he says goes. If there is a problem with something Gaviidae says or does, the team captains will discuss the problems with Gaviidae and the three of them will work out any problems or rule corrections. If Gaviidae and the team captains sees a problem with how this game is being played, they will be allowed to change the rules from that point forward. What was done in the pass will stay in the pass, but we will make changes to make sure the game is played fair and friendly. 14. Sportsmanship This game is being played to have fun and to meet some fellow geocachers. Also to add a new level to geocaching. The Referee has the right to bench or eject any player for unsportsmanship behavior. The Referee also has the rights to impose point penalties. One point for name calling, 5 points for hiding the potato in an unfair way. If you have a question email and ask the Referee for a ruling.

********************okay how does this sound***************’ Play like Tennis. Team North (TN) gets the TB. They place in South in Pierce County at noon. (That’s one point) Hours noon-2:00 no added points. At 2:01 TN gets another point. Every hour until Team South (TS) picks up the TB, TN gets a point. Once TS picks up the TB, no more points are earned. TS then must place it in a cache in King County. Then they earn one point to placing the TB in the cache, and after two hours they will start earning points. This will give each team a chance to play, and earn points. The key is how quickly the other team can return the TB. Add this in there… it looks like we have enough players to set some type of limit. If TravisL finds the TB in a cache and then places it in another cache, then he must wait until 5 players from his team places the TB before he can touch it again. If there is a hand off… TravisL hands it to me, and I put it in a cache. We both must wait until 5 other people place the TB. (if the next person on our team Happy Gillmore hands it to Bilbo19 who hands it to Ajetpilot who then places it in a cache, counts as one. Then they all must wait.) So hand offs are okay, but it could hurt your team. Of course there would be all kinds of other rules and stuff like that. Just trying to think outside the box and come up with a better game. I really like playing, and I love the fact that I have to keep tabs on it. I’m really tired after only 4 hours of sleep, but I had fun today.

********************okay how does this sound***************’ Play like Tennis. Team North (TN) gets the TB. They place in South in Pierce County at noon. (That’s one point) Hours noon-2:00 no added points. At 2:01 TN gets another point. Every hour until Team South (TS) picks up the TB, TN gets a point. Once TS picks up the TB, no more points are earned. TS then must place it in a cache in King County. Then they earn one point to placing the TB in the cache, and after two hours they will start earning points. This will give each team a chance to play, and earn points. The key is how quickly the other team can return the TB. Add this in there… it looks like we have enough players to set some type of limit. If TravisL finds the TB in a cache and then places it in another cache, then he must wait until 5 players from his team places the TB before he can touch it again. If there is a hand off… TravisL hands it to me, and I put it in a cache. We both must wait until 5 other people place the TB. (if the next person on our team Happy Gillmore hands it to Bilbo19 who hands it to Ajetpilot who then places it in a cache, counts as one. Then they all must wait.) So hand offs are okay, but it could hurt your team. Of course there would be all kinds of other rules and stuff like that. Just trying to think outside the box and come up with a better game. I really like playing, and I love the fact that I have to keep tabs on it. I’m really tired after only 4 hours of sleep, but I had fun today.

My 2 cents... I agree with everyone else this game got way out of hand. I think we should just call this game a learning game, no one wins no one loses. I think we should start a new game with new rules. Work out the rules at a high level and go from there. I think if we each talk about this for a week in the forums, we can work out most details. If we wait until next week to start talking at Round Table, we will be there all night. If we all talk about the rules that we want, and how to play the game her in the forum, a few people can meet to set the rules for the next game. If we have too many people trying to make the rules, I think it would take too long and we would have too much detail. After this next game we sit down and correct the rules for game 4. Some of the rules I think we should have are: No hiding the TB. Just place it in the cache. We need to remove the 5 mile rule. What happens is the same cache gets hit too many times. Let’s open this game up for everyone. We need to get more people into the game. Open it up for others. Avoid points for holding the TB. Make the game go faster (meaning we are not waiting for people to drop the TB).

We now have two memebers of Team South at the cache and still can't find the coin.

You guys talk like you have known me for a long time....

okay now that Team North have touched the TB, I am able to go grab it right? I don't have to wait 48 hours or anything like that.

I was being nice, sorry if it came across differently. I didn't mean to make him or his neighborhood mad at geocaching or geocachers.

Well this was added to the cache page I feel bad, but a cache is a cache. I didn't see any hours posted on this cache. I did post a note saying I was sorry, and I truly am. I know I wouldn’t want to make anyone in my neighborhood mad at me for all these cars driving around at all hours of the day and night. That is why I haven’t placed any caches in the park by my house. Kids I know live there and I didn’t want to add any traffic to the neighborhood. So for now it looks like he disabled it so people would leave it alone for a while.

Hey Drinksmith I see that you found it. I didn't post any false logs! it was there the whole time. Question for you: Since this is a Bug Hotel, and you are to leave a TB when you pick one up, did you drop off a TB when you picked up the Hot Potato?

Team South is buy dinner for Team North will all the money Team North gives us for winning the game. So if Team North gives us $2000.00, we will have one great dinner!!! If they give us $.02 then the dinner's not going to be that great. So it's really up to Team North.

If you look at my post on Posted: Jan 10 2004, 12:41 PM It states: I did state that I wanted to play this game, and that I would be on the South's Side. I live in the South and my first Cache was in the South. So, by all means I should be in the south. I have been trying to get the TB from Jan 10th, but it is hard to get a hold of. I woke up at 4:15 this morning, checked the website and was out the door by 4:30, and I still missed it. The team is doing good. I would also say for the next game we need to change some of the rules to make it more fair, but until the next game the south is going to kick your butt.