CalgaryTowerCachers

I just want to find boxes of crap in the woods. I could care less about somebody's favorite team or favorite {whatever}. I'm happy to see the write up talk about how great the view is, or the history of the spot, or something about the location. I skip over all the blah blah blah about stuff unrelated to the cache. Here here! But, being from Canada, we love our hockey. I think Calgarians will love this one if it gets published. If it doesn't, oh well, it'll just become a trail of boxes next to fenceposts. I'm curious to know if I can do it though!

1. They are guidelines, and some of them are not immutable. As has been explained, there are regional and cultural differences that local reviewers tend to be knowledgable about but some issues are in grey areas. 2. The reviewer could have simply refused to publish the cache. Then you would have been forced to go to appeals anyway (assuming, as a new cacher, you knew about the appeals process.) The reviewer HAS been helpful by saving you a step. Wouldn't it be most helpful to say, "You know what, I don't know the rule, but I will look into it for you. Check your email and in a few days I will respond with the answer!"? I feel like that's what I would do if I were trying to be a helpful reviewer. Not that I know a single thing about reviewing. But, it just seems logical, no? It is my understanding that your reviewer did not say "bye bye" but rather "As a volunteer reviewer, this is an ongoing learning process for me" and requested that you utilize the appeals process to get some clarity on the situation. Maybe I'm mistaken, but shouldn't it be the job of the reviewer to know the rules? I understand you can't know everything but you can learn. Being a reviewer almost seems like being a teacher to me. I ask a question, and you don't know the answer. A good teacher doesn't tell me to go look up the answer in a book. A good teacher is curious to learn the answer, figures out the answer, then explains it to the student in a way that is understandable. My physics teacher in high school was like this. He didn't teach, he just told us to read out of the book. By the end of the semester the students were smarter than the teacher! Telling me to go look it up in a book, to me, is essentially saying "bye bye, good luck". I never said anything anywhere that she/he is not a good reviewer. She/he is very good. That said I have nothing to compare to, and in this case (see above), I was a little disappointed. I understand the hard work of a reviewer, and appreciate it very much!

1. They are guidelines, and some of them are not immutable. As has been explained, there are regional and cultural differences that local reviewers tend to be knowledgable about but some issues are in grey areas. 2. The reviewer could have simply refused to publish the cache. Then you would have been forced to go to appeals anyway (assuming, as a new cacher, you knew about the appeals process.) The reviewer HAS been helpful by saving you a step. Wouldn't it be most helpful to say, "You know what, I don't know the rule, but I will look into it for you. Check your email and in a few days I will respond with the answer!"? I feel like that's what I would do if I were trying to be a helpful reviewer. Not that I know a single thing about reviewing. But, it just seems logical, no?

Well that's nice to hear. I don't know why but I just assumed that appeals would be a slow and painful process. I never said I would do anything like that. I was just curious in general whether reviewers would actually notice. Makes me wonder how many caches around my home have been altered post-review... Sometimes I wonder how some things got published in the first place. Now I know that it could have simply been altered by the CO between the review period and now! Relying on other cachers to spot the problem could be challenging, especially if the page is borderline on being against the guidelines. Also makes me wonder why more businesses wouldn't try to get a little free advertising now and then. Set up a fake account, post a "blank" page, edit it a day or two after publication with commercial promos, and just letting it ride! Sure, it would get caught eventually, but it's free marketing! In the right place and context 1000s of people could see it before it's changed. Just sayin'.

I'm frustrated that I am forced to go to appeals to figure out the rules. Isn't it the job of the reviewer to know/learn the rules and enforce them? I'm okay with the reviewer taking time to learn the rules but simply telling me "go to appeals" isn't helpful. Yes, I understand there is a precedent part. But if a cache is in violation of a rule such as a commercial guideline, shouldn't it be required to remove the violation? A commercial violation shouldn't fall under the precedent clause. Just how would the reviewers go about enforcing that? They'd have to examine every cache in their jurisdiction periodically for caches that fit the most recent interpretations of the guidelines. Impossible! So why can't I publish a blank page then change it a week later? According to what you say the reviewers will never see that I changed it....? They must check from time to time? Maybe I'm naive but I repeat, why can't I simply change a published page to something that violates the rules after it is published?

The reviewer note I read says the the use of the name is probably okay, but he'd like you to to appeals for the use of team logo. The appeals crew will either say the logo use is okay, under the same Pop culture exception as the team name, or they'll say it isn't. This won't take terribly long and then you'll know. There's conflict between the specific language of the commercial guideline and the looser definitions allowing exceptions for Pop culture references. Here's the guideline link http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#commercialcaches and the Help Center article which tries to clarify the Pop culture exceptions allowing for use of business and product names http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=475 Interesting links, thanks!

Do you recall approximately when the rule change took place? There are examples of caches placed within the last 9 months that violate the rule. (I won't post them to save space, but they're out there) Nope, they just said "bye bye" and told me to talk to the appeals board.

Yes, I understand there is a precedent part. But if a cache is in violation of a rule such as a commercial guideline, shouldn't it be required to remove the violation? A commercial violation shouldn't fall under the precedent clause. Agreed! Just thought I'd strike a conversation while I wait and twiddle my thumbs

I've recently tried to make a series based on our local NHL team, the Calgary Flames. Well, it seems that our local reviewer won't allow the use of the team name "Calgary Flames" or the team logo on the cache pages. (Actually, the reviewer is "not sure" whether it is allowed) The reviewer has forced me to contact appeals, which I have done. But, this a big inconvenience and I'm left wondering if the work I've put in will be for naught? Wait, wait! What about these caches? http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC53AN2_ebbp-nhl-series-flames http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC2JNC2_nhl-hockey-team-challenge http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC4PNQP_canada-loon-know-your-canadian-hockey-teams It appears that the use of the team name and the logo is allowed there? Are these reviewers missing the violations? Are reviewers not created equal? I have to assume, when I am designing a cache, that other geocaches have been reviewed with the same scrutiny that I will face. In that case, doesn't it make sense that I can follow what I see around me? (The exception is, of course, grandfathered rules, which this is not) The best case scenario is that the reviewer just didn't know and the appeals will approve the idea. But I have to admit I will be upset if the appeals board rejects my idea, even though I understand "rules are rules". I'm curious to hear other people's opinions on this topic or perhaps you could share a story on your similar experiences.

Soooo, it looks like using Multis for "Geo-art" is not allowed! Here's what the reviewer said: "After looking into the use of multi caches for Geo-Art I have found that Groundspeak has very clear guidance for us on the subject. We are to strictly enforce the 2 mile guideline - no exceptions. If Multi-Caches are used in a geo-art project, it is my responsibility to review them to ensure they are truly multi-caches where geocachers are expected to visit the posted coordinates. Geo-art made entirely of multi-caches with projections more than two miles away from the posted coordinates is considered to be misusing the multi-caches for Geo-Art, because they are set up this way only to get around the maximum distance restriction. "

Wow, interesting, could have fooled me. Thank you!

Hi, So I've been looking at the Wood Tick Trail in Saskatchewan, Canada. http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC5CM47_wood-tick-trail-001 It appears that the final stages of most of these multicaches are several kilometers away from the posted coordinates (often over 10 kilometers away). Isn't this technique essentially dodging the ~3 kilometer rule for unknown caches (distance between unknown posted coordinates and final cache site cannot be more than 3 km)? Is there a maximum distance multicache stages can be separated? Any insight on this? Thanks!