slycrel
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Posts posted by slycrel
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I don't think it would be of much value since it doesn't have a GPS (at least I haven't founf any reference to it). I was thinking of getting one for an ap that needs a GPS as well as Geocaching.
Edit to add : if you mean the iPod Touch doesn't have a GPS, you're right.
The 3G version of the iPad does have an A-GPS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPad#Connectivity
Some people have commented that you'll look like Moses when you go geocaching with an iPad. But remember how easy it would be for Moses to get to those scuba caches.
If you want an iPad, get an iPad. But if you will only use it for geocaching, then get an old model iPhone or an iPod touch with a GPS attachment. There isn't much iPad specific software for geocaching as it's a bit big, but all of the iPhone GPS apps will work with it if you get the GPS model.
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I'm all for capitalism, but I don't see the obvious brand bias and special "Garmin brand only" features as being a good thing, so much for "open" caching. One of the great things about geocaching.com is the neutrality and the fact that regardless of what equipment you have there's a way to get into it. I have nothing against Garmin, in fact being a local company is one of the reasons I have all Garmin unit and I know several employees whom I like to support.
In the end I hope the opening of the second site doesn't divide or dilute the fanbase.
roog
As a 3rd party developer I don't see any specific "branding" going on. It's even a bit difficult to tell at first glance that this is a garmin site. They do not require a login to get any of the data, only to add/edit data (by adding caches, logging, etc). Additionally, they are using the Groundspeak GPX standard tags for optimal interactivity with existing apps along with their own custom tags, a standard that Groundspeak I believe put out there for this purpose. This is a win/win for them and for the geocaching community. It does put Groundspeak in a tight spot as they have features that people have requested before that gc.com doesn't have, but Groundspeak has the high ground as far as all the data goes.
Should be interesting to see what happens.
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just now from the feedback site:
An idea you follow has been updated:API for 3rd party applications
Planned → Started
Groundspeak is currently in the process of developing an API for 3rd party applications. Our current plan is to make the API available to a limited group of trusted third parties starting in late January 2011. Once the API has been properly tested, we intend to expand the list of 3rd party developers throughout 2011 and beyond.
interesting timing. coincidence?
Doubtful that it's coincidence. They've been toying with this idea for years and years, but never actually done anything. Until today. =)
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As an iPhone developer of a geocaching app, their site having an open API to use to not only view caches, but add and edit them... it's a big deal. This will gain traction quickly, assuming Garmin manages the community well from the get-go. I really like what Groundspeak has done in many ways... but they've artificially stunted the growth of certain aspects of geocaching due to some of their business related decisions.
Also keep in mind this is still a beta version of the site. I'm sure that many more things are to come, both polish-wise as well as feature-wise. But heavy on the polish I'd expect up front.
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That link only brings you to a login screen
You are correct, you get a lot more options if you are a member there, it's free to sign up. I stay logged in so I didn't notice that this was the case.
Use this link for direct SVN access.
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I've released Geopher Lite's source code under the MIT license. I will likely change the price point to $0.99 or free, haven't decided yet. For any of those who care. =)
You can grab the source here:
http://geopherlite.beanstalkapp.com/geopherlite
Thanks everyone for your great feedback and comments on this app!
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Geocaching for the iPhone is an application written in Objective C using Apple's iPhone SDK.
What did you think of Objective C, xcode, Interface Builder, etc.? After working in Java for the past few years and not looking at a line of C++ code, I found Objective C kind of hard to pick up. I'm slowing getting an understanding of the language. It's not the object model that I'm used to, that's for sure.
--Marky
Marky,
I have programmed in C/C++ for work for almost 10 years now and I think I understand what you mean. It took me about two days of full-time programming in obj-c to get the basics down, but after having coded Geopher Lite, I have to say that Objective-C is probably the most comfortable environment I've coded in in a long time. I've heard there are lots of comparisons with C# and Objective-C. Give it time, if you can wrap your head around it it will "click". But it does take some time.
Congrats Groundspeak, looking forward to this!
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So, essentially (and until confirmed by a moderator or lackey) this is something off the grid for Groundspeak due to its agreements with Trimble? That's a shame. So, perhaps this thread needs to be moved the the Software forum and there should be a rally for a good app that would work for touch or iphone. The problem is, again, how to grab the caches you want to have on your apple product. If Groundspeak wouldn't give the necessary allowances, someone will need to end-around the entire process.
I know there are ways to upload cache info to the "notes" app/tab on an ipod/touch/iphone, but there really should be a real app that can pretty up (read: declutter) that information. Decryption of hints and alignment of all cache info (I would imagine w/o logs) would be a great paperless way to go. So can any of the GSAK/GPSBbabel programmers create an app that can upload/translate gpx files already downloadable by premium members?
I understand that the intent is to maintain the website, but there are ways to download directly to a Garmin from the cache page, Trimble geocache programs on certain GPS-enabled phones and other examples of relationships with vendors. I feel like it matches Groundspeak's vision to "develop tools to help GPS enthusiasts create unique adventures in the real world". Have options been explored with Apple like they have been for Garmin and Trimble?
But, alas, I'm sure there's some reason that TPTB won't put work into an app for the iphone/touch. But, if they were to limit the app to waypoint data and tie up code to not allow navigation, wouldn't the app just be a text/gpx converter? (I'm mostly high-level computer illiterate, so help me out here with the lingo...) I think this could get around any Trimble agreements, and would really be a smart move to advocate something that encourages paperless caching.
So, anyone out there know how to go about recruiting for/programming an app? Now's the chance to give back to the geocaching community, and I wish I were savvy enough to do it myself...
I am the developer for Geopher Lite on the iPhone. I can tell you that there are many developers willing to do this, but it's a matter of the terms of use not being compatible with what you are asking for. Either Groundspeak does this themselves (or closely partner with someone), there isn't any bigger benefit having an iPhone versus any other smart phone with a web browser as far as 3rd party developers are concerned. As far as a general cache management goes (i.e. for the touch) I know there is at least one that is released and a few more in development for the plam-esque cache managers. Don't give up hope. =)
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I am anxiously awaiting the new Geode application for the Iphone 3G. http://www.nonameindustries.com/geodeapp/ Looks like a great app, but there seems to be little update to the release of this. Last date was Aug 24. Anyone know the status of this project?
I know they are still working on it as of about 10 days ago. No idea why they haven't updated anything in a while. They have some pretty ambitious claims, so it might take a while to get those completed.
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I have not heard of this coordinate reverting problem you are talking about. Can you give me some more information on it? Geopher Lite is supposed to prevent the iPhone from sleeping when in the target screen. When the application closes it should be saving your current location. I will double-check to make sure this is happening when you hit the map button but it should be. When your device went into standby mode what were you doing? Were you in google maps or geopher lite? Also google maps should open in relation to your currently set target. Was your target location reverting back to the burnaby location or was the burnaby location your current position when you started geopher lite?
Hi! I was using Geopher Lite and pressed the "map" button when I had located the cache I wanted to find and entered the coordinates into Geopher Lite. At first it didn't show my current location, so I exited (by pressing the HOME button on the iPhone) and went into the iPhone "Maps" application, thinking that perhaps the Map button in Geopher just showed you where the cache was but wasn't able to pinpoint your current locale (I now know that it can). Anyways, it was the "Maps" application in iPhone's menu that had me in Burnaby (and I hadn't been in that location in days, certainly not when I was using Geopher). I then exited that application by pressing the iPhone HOME button, went back into Geopher Lite, and that's when it started having the reverting problem.
I did find that the iPhone did not go into sleep mode when the target screen was showing. Sometimes I'd press the HOME button on the iPhone to do something else (eg. check my email), and when I went back into Geopher Lite it seemed to be where I left off (target coordinates were right, webpage on Geocaching.com was where I last visited), but the current location would show Burnaby with a corresponding distance (5 km) on the target screen. After a while (30 seconds or more) it would update and my current location would be displayed with the correct distance to the cache (a few metres).
So at first I thought "ah, I better not use any other apps and just keep the target screen open" and that's when I discovered that it would revert to this Burnaby location every once in a while even when locked on the target screen. I wondered if maybe this occurs when the device is trying to take a new fix and can't get one? Though I still don't know why it would use that burnaby coordinate rather than the last one it had...
Frankly, it was all very weird. I will say that I have played around with it here at home today and it seems to be working just fine! So maybe it was just one of those weird cyber-gremlin events, lol.
I have already received one upgrade, not sure which one, but I'll look forward to the next one. I have to say that despite the little bugs I am LOVING this application and I'd like to thank you for putting it out there. I'm not only doing paperless caches but I don't even have a GPS and I found a cache...that's pretty neat in my books!
I can't for sure explain what you were seeing there... Geopher Lite remembers your last updated position between sessions, but it should only load that once on startup, not when it loses a signal. It's possible that if you lost your GPS signal entirely that the assisted portion of the GPS took over and the cell network was telling you you were really 5 km away. I have seen similar things happen sometimes. That's the only explanation that makes sense to me, but I will double-check things and make sure that the code is working correctly. Thanks for the helpful post and I hope that you continue to enjoy Geopher Lite!
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Today I found my second ever cache, first one without experienced friends along, and using only an iPhone with the Geopher Lite application. On the one hand, if a newbie like me can do this I suppose that speaks to how well the app works for geocaching (and of course we were in a place with a good signal). But I did have some issues I thought I'd throw out there for discussion...
The first thing I noticed was the app takes a while to refresh your position, so you need to wait several seconds, sometimes up to a minute at times, before it resets your current coordinates. This means you either need to walk very slowly when you get close to the cache, or stop every few minutes and allow it to catch up to you. Sometimes the reading changed widely, but the accuracy readings helped me determine which ones to ignore...I'd just wait another minute for it to update the location again.
There was one weird problem that got pretty frustrating after a while though....I guess the last time I used the MAPS function on my iPhone we were passing through Burnaby. I pressed the little circle button that marks your location. Well, on today's cache hunt I used the map function in Geopher Lite to figure out where we were in relation to the cache and it put me back in Burnaby! Suddenly the cache was 5 km away instead of 600 m! I had to wait a minute or two for the location to refresh in Geopher...
Every time the iPhone went into standby mode Geopher Lite would open with those Burnaby coordinates as my present location. I'd wait a while and eventually it would reset to my current coordinates and update the distance and direction markers. That was really annoying.
When we were getting close to the cache location and I was preventing the Phone from going into standby, sometimes the location would mysteriously revert to the Burnaby coordinates right in front of my eyes! I would then have to wait a while until it figured out where I was again.
I have no idea why this happened. But I did find the cache; at it's closest iPhone had me 4.9 m from the location...I suppose that is pretty good.
Hi there, glad you are enjoying Geopher Lite! I am the developer, and sorry to hear that you had a somewhat frustrating experience even if you did find the cache.
I have not heard of this coordinate reverting problem you are talking about. Can you give me some more information on it? Geopher Lite is supposed to prevent the iPhone from sleeping when in the target screen. When the application closes it should be saving your current location. I will double-check to make sure this is happening when you hit the map button but it should be. When your device went into standby mode what were you doing? Were you in google maps or geopher lite? Also google maps should open in relation to your currently set target. Was your target location reverting back to the burnaby location or was the burnaby location your current position when you started geopher lite?
The current version (1.0.4) doesn't update your location when you are setting the target on the target screen. In the new version (1.0.5) there is a preference to always have the GPS turned on. 1.0.5 also updates more often, so you shouldn't have the lag issue that I've heard from a few people. I had hoped that apple would have reviewed the update already but it hasn't been approved yet and has been in review well over a week now.
If you have any more questions feel free to PM me or preferrably an email as I check that much more often than these boards. Thanks for sharing your experience!
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I also agree.
What I'd like to see is a iPhone app from GS developed specifically for Geocaching. One that can pull live data from the servers, utilize the G3 unit's built-in GPS and Map application. Heck, I would even pay for the app.
I think we are all hoping for GS to do something for the iPhone. The tricky part here is that a 3rd party app can't do this, they need to either do it themselves or sanction someone. Many other features can be done via GP (edit GPX! doh) files, but this is one of those things that they will need to be involved with. Only time will tell, but I can't imagine that they are just ignoring the iPhone market.
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In an effort to have geocachers log all DNFs, I would like to see the blue frownie face placed on the map. That way, we will see the yellow smilie face for the caches we've found, the blue frownie face for the caches we've attempted to find and logged a DNF, and the cache symbol for the caches we have not attempted.
Eric at Groundspeak asked that I start a thread in this forum regarding the topic. With enough support, the idea may be implemented in a future release.
What do you think?
I'm for this -- it would be good feedback if you are using the google maps interface for finding a cache, especially if it's been a while since you logged the DNF.
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Yes, you need to address this request to Apple.
My guess is that if they were to program and provide a suitable plug-in for their units, Groundspeak would be willing to discuss it with them.
My guess is that Apple has never heard of Groundspeak.
Possibly.
However, if users of their products wish to have software features developed that interface said products with the data on Groundspeak's websites, then the users need to take responsibility for making Apple aware.
Someone at apple has heard of geocaching.com because I had to tell them how to log in for Geopher Lite for the apple app store to approve my application. =)
For the iPhone/iPod Touch the full version of my software (currently in development) may be able to do this. It depends on what I can work out with apple's SDK limitations and Groundspeak's terms of use. It wouldn't be a "Send to iPhone" button, it would be more of making the "Download GPX" handle the rest for you directly into the application. It would have to be while running the 3rd party application because apple doesn't allow for safari plugins on iPhone/touch. And it may be pie in the sky, but I'm trying to get it done. I have other (easier ways) of getting things on there in development as well. Wish me luck. =)
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Thanks for that, I appreciate hearing from someone who has gotten permission above and beyond the current terms of use. =)
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Seem pretty obvious to me. If you want to upload it to your own site, strictly for your own use, that's allowed. Uploading it to someone else's site... not so much.
Licensee shall not sell, rent, lease, sublicense, lend, assign, time-share, or transfer, in whole or in part, or provide access to the Data, Related Materials, any updates, or Licensee's rights under this Agreement to any third party whatsoever.
This is what I have understood as well. However, there seem to be a few people doing this and no apparent repercussions, so I was just curious. I don't want to go about this the wrong way. More discussion would be helpful here, I'll let you all know what I find out as well.
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I am the author of Geopher Lite on the iPhone. I've been very careful to adhere to the terms of use of geocaching.com. I have seen other software for the iphone that allows a user to upload a pocket query or GPX/LOC files to a website and then have these programs re-serve that data to an end user.
Do the terms of use of geocaching.com actually allow this? Have I missed a loophole somewhere? I'd love to be able to do this for my users, but my impression was that this was a bad thing and forbidden by the terms of use.
Any clarification here would be greatly appreciated.
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Next Question: when I first started using geopher it asked me if it could use my current location as a starting point. Now I'm off camping and want to use this current location but I can't figure out how to change it. It's still searching for caches near my home.
TIA. You guys are very helpful.
Let the app sit at the compass screen for 15 or so seconds, it will get a better lock on your position. By default it remembers your last position when you re-enter the app, so if you move a large distance you need to let it update before searching for a cache. I'm not in love with this so it may change in the future, but that's how it works right now.
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Once there I headed in the general direction that the cache was according to the navigation screen on geopher. With no compass and just knowing generally which direction I was heading I got to within 1.5 meters of the cache location. Geopher led me directly to a large tree on the edge of the park...
Okay, stupid question.... What do you mean by the "navigator" on Geopher? Do you mean the compass with the red arrow? Because I thought I read on the Geopher blog that it doesn't actually work. If so, then that is super news and I'm very excited that it worked for you. can't wait to try it myself (heading off today for a family camping trip. I'll see if I can sneak away if there's a cache nearby!
Yeah I mean the compass screen. It does indeed move, just not in the same way the navigation screen works on a handheld. Basically it takes your current location and points to what direction on the compass the cache is from you. So if the compass is pointing south the cache is south of your location regardless of your heading. It won't move much until you get closer to the cache, but it does in fact move. It does take some getting used to, and having a compass with you would help as well. I too am excited about being able to "sneak away" for caches. I travel a lot and come across unexpected free time, so now I can see what's close and instantly go after it.
There has been some confusion on the compass arrow. It does work, but the compass itself doesn't current rotate. I have a version that is in beta testing that rotates. I'm not thrilled with the accuracy at the moment, but it's definitely usable. Keep an eye out, there should be a significant update to Geopher Lite in the next week or so, depending on how long it takes apple to approve it.
Oh, I've taken out the directions portion of the google maps link -- I hadn't realized it snapped to a street level. Guess that's what I get for living in the city. =)
Thanks for the good cache story. That kind of usage was the intent of the compass and arrow, I'm glad it worked for you.
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Just for clarification.
There was a misunderstanding between Groundspeak and myself via email creating part of this drama. I had started the process of asking if I could go beyond the current terms of use of Groundspeak's site, namely taking over some of the user interface of GC.com instead of having a web view that the user referred to and then entered the data manually. I contacted Groundspeak earlier than I had intended about this, due to apple rejecting geopher lite. (see here) So as I was having this email conversation with Groundspeak, apple decided that my revised changes were good enough and released geopher lite in the app store. Groundspeak thought that I had already gone beyond their terms of use when apple released my app and asked me to pull geopher lite for that reason. We cleared up the confusion. However they affirmed that nothing would be OK other than what was explicitly stated in the terms of use. I'm sure the misunderstanding and timing of everything didn't help with this at all either.
They haven't told me any reasons why, they have just said no. There are plenty of reasons to say no. I am hoping that they already have something in the works rather than that they don't want me to interface their content in a different way. It's a pretty grey area -- I don't want to sell their data at all. I have nothing without GC.com, and I am very aware of that. The possibility of an all in one solution is very compelling and is where geopher came from.
They did say that a public API for getting at the data was in the works. If I had to guess it won't be in a month or two, but it's on their list of things to do. So that is some good news.
In related news I will be posting an update for review by apple to geopher lite hopefully sometime this evening and will keep those of you following the blog in the loop.
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I would like to be on this mailing list as well, assuming you are still doing it. Thanks.
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I've done it exactly as PercyKittenz describes above - see blog entry for details.
This process is slow enough that I'll probably only cache with the iPhone when I find myself with a little time to kill when I wasn't expecting to go caching. That is until someone develops a good caching app
That is, assuming that apple will allow a geocaching app on their store. Look here for my fight to get something that is fairly basic through their submission process.
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I am moving this thread from the Geocaching Topics forum to the GPS and Technology forum.
In passing, I note that iGeocacher is not an authorized geocaching software application.
I was thinking about this more, and there might be more to being "authorized". Groundspeak owns the GPX format and the license agreement states:
"Licensee shall not reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the Groundspeak-compatible data format(s) in an attempt to duplicate the proprietary and copyright-protected Groundspeak data model(s) and/or export format(s)."
IANAL, so perhaps programs that use the GPX data format require Groundspeak's permission to be legally legit? Do the "authorized" apps pay some royalties to Groundspeak for the usage of the GPX format? I don't know.
-Tony
I think the intent of GPX files is to get the information for individual use. I think the big problem is distributing GPX files to other people -- other than that agreement, Groundspeak has no way of stopping someone from just downloading all of their data via GPX files and creating their own site or selling this data. Reading the license, that appears to be the intent.
As for having to have Groundspeak's official approval, I'd love to know that as well. I don't think they require royalties since the GPX file format is freely available and (from what I have seen) an attempt to create a standard for this data.
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I am moving this thread from the Geocaching Topics forum to the GPS and Technology forum.
In passing, I note that iGeocacher is not an authorized geocaching software application.
iGeocacher isn't mine. I am curious though, what does make a piece of software "authorized"?
I am currently playing tag with apple in hopes of getting at least a basic geocaching app out the door. If anyone wants to follow the drama, check out Geopher Lite. I wish apple would have been more clear with their submission guidelines.
opencaching.com new mascot...
in General geocaching topics
Posted
This is a bit tricky for Groundspeak. They will have to balance their API with their premium features. Opencaching.com is giving everything out for free, so there's no real line there.
I expect that opencaching.com will indeed be similar to twitter. You'll see a bunch of clients and they will also have a respectable main page. They're building a community (giving out web tools for free) so that they can have their own geocaching content.
Within a year I expect garmin to be marketing a geocaching handheld that allows you to do everything on the GPS you'd ever need to in relation to geocaching, without a computer. With this API and a half-decent web community, and beign able to find/place/log caches directly on your GPS, it won't take long for things to get big fast.
I also expect that Groundspeak will soon use OC's API themselves to gather all of their data.