SiliconFiend

I guess I started this whole fight. My real point is not that this isn't a bug. It is, an it should be fixed (if it can be). My problem is with the tone of the complaints--running around with your hands in the air and your hair on fire like it's the worst bug ever and Garmin is intentionally deceiving customers with this horrible software. Come on, 72 point font, red text and multiple exclamation points? (I know G&G, it wasn't you.) A better approach would have been "The odometer on the Vista HCx reads short in comparison to the 60CSx. This is an important feature for me and I wanted people to know in case it's important to them, too. I'll be contacting Garmin in hopes of a satisfactory resolution to my concern."

I think it uses only 1 channel (only 1 WAAS satellite is needed to correct all the others that are visible to you). Anyway, you'll get much better accuracy and precision (meaning more repeatable results) using that 1 channel to get WAAS corrections, if available, than you will using it to get 1 more satellite on the horizon. However, applying the WAAS corrections do chew up some CPU time, so it probably does have some quantifiable impact on battery life.

Your principle was correct but your example is not quite. Your latitude (represented by a N or S coordinate) will always represent the same physical distance per change in coordinate unit, no matter where you are (disregarding ellipsoid distortions). Your longitude (E or W) will be variable depending on your latitude (i.e., a 1 degree change in longitude is much shorter in physical distance when you're close to the poles than when you're at the equator). To exaggerate the point, if you were standing at one of the poles, you could walk in a 1-meter diameter circle around the pole and traverse all 360 degrees of longitude. However, latitude 89 (or -89) would still be 111,111 meters away to the south (or north).

That's an interesting article. I hadn't gotten to this yet when I wrote my last reply. While the two seemed to me to work well for regular hiking, and for testing the elevation at a known point, this article brings up some issues about how the HCx works that are worth looking into. I may have to read it through carefully and do some of my own tests to see what works well and what doesn't. I'd take that article with a huge grain of salt. In it they say "At present, there is some 'mystery' as to where this new receiver comes from. Garmin tells us that they purchase from many different receiver chip vendors, but there is a news release, "Garmin Integrates New GPS Chipset from STMicroelectronics" (HERE)." See this article here with a bootup screenshot which clearly says "MediaTek". "Mystery" solved! Also, the big deal with the "less-versatile" pressure track is that the Vista HCx doesn't record pressure while it's off. That's the significance of the two screen shots. It doesn't say that the Vista HCx updates less frequently. If it's important to you to have a pressure log while the unit is off, you might consider getting the older model or a separate barometer (or you could try using the Vista HCx in GPS-off mode; that would extend your battery life). Their comment about "lock to road" near the bottom is inaccurate, too. (Lock to road is a separate setting from On road/Off road).

It is possible to get US tide tables on the Vista HCx, but it takes a bit of work. Basically it involves downloading the "Recommended MapSource US Tides Software" from Garmin here. But you can only install it if you have the full version of MapSource (i.e., you own another Garmin map product). You can work around that by installing Garmin's Fitness Center first, then installing the latest MapSource update, which will give you the full version. Then you can install the tide software. However, after all that, I couldn't figure out how to download them to my unit (I think they have to be combined with another map), so I just ended up using Sendmap to get the tide stations on my Vista HCx. See, I told you it was a bit of work.

To answer your first question, no, the 2 kilometer per hour threshold apparently only applies to the trip odometer. Your position is updated continuously, and the track log will record your position, regardless of speed. For the second question, I don't really know; I haven't played with a Vista C. However, the pressure (well, altitude) update does seem to be responsive. It seemed to track in real-time while driving up and down hills in the car (although it wasn't very accurate--I seem to recall it was off by a couple hundred feet compared to the signage, but I hadn't given it much time to auto-calibrate).

YES, that would be a nice solution for me !!! I could see that being messy to implement, given that the user can clear the tracklog and odometer independently of each other. It wouldn't be all that bad. If the track log were cleared, the odometer could just save the distance to that point and add it to the distance from the new active track. Actually, it could be even simpler than that. All it would have to do is to add the change in distance to the odometer every time a track point is logged. If the odometer were reset, it would just have to make sure to log a track point (if it had a fix, otherwise log it as soon as a fix was obtained). That implies tighter integration between the track log and trip computer, though, which were probably written by different software teams or at least different people, I would guess. The current odometer implementation is pretty stupid, really. Warning: calculus terms ahead! The speed shown is the derivative versus time of your position. The odometer is then integrating that derivative to get back to... a distance! Which of course leads to errors. I'd like to see the speedometer operate separately from the odometer, or at least have the option to do that. I know that while staying in one place your track log can still wander around, so that would annoy some people. Hence the option.

The maps are free. How they are organized and information stored about what you are looking at, so you can route on them plus all the points of interest and other information contained in the maps that "Bring them alive" is what a company like NavTeq would have. That's where their value lies. Someone like Google could make thier own maps (those Google Vans driving around) and has the $ to do it fairly quickly... A start up would have to take some time to get their ducks in a row and fund the work to get all that information set up. Not all government maps are free. Notably, the UK government charges big bucks for the data which was collected with taxpayer money. Take a look at the OpenStreetMap project (http://www.openstreetmap.org). It's making good progress in comprehensive mapping of the world. I'm working on an export tool for creating auto-routing Garmin maps from the data.

That would be me. I don't disagree that it's a bug and needs to be fixed. I'm embarrassed by the people that make such a huge stink about a really minor bug and imply that the entire unit isn't worth buying because the odometer doesn't tell you how long of a slug trail you left. A handheld gps which is designed for use "On the trail"... 39 percent difference ... minor bug.... @SiliconFiend: What is a bug for you if that is a really minor bug with 39 percent difference. This bug is on the order of "the radio is stuck on the easy-listening station" as opposed to "the brakes failed". More akin to "I can't get my front-end aligned or my tires balanced on my Toyota Tacoma, and the dealer says "Tough luck, we've done everything corporate will let us do, sorry we don't have the right tools!""! Norm Are you spying on me? How did you know I have a Tacoma? Anyway, that isn't the response Garmin has given. They made a stab at fixing it and it improved the problem, but still didn't fix it completely. As freeday quoted from Garmin, "The engineering team has been notified of this issue." (By the way, freeday, I do appreciate you following up with Garmin on this.) Based on Garmin's responsiveness in the past, I believe that if this problem can be fixed in software, it will be. A nice option might be a checkbox to allow you to use the tracklog points as the basis for the odometer.

That would be me. I don't disagree that it's a bug and needs to be fixed. I'm embarrassed by the people that make such a huge stink about a really minor bug and imply that the entire unit isn't worth buying because the odometer doesn't tell you how long of a slug trail you left. A handheld gps which is designed for use "On the trail"... 39 percent difference ... minor bug.... @SiliconFiend: What is a bug for you if that is a really minor bug with 39 percent difference. This bug is on the order of "the radio is stuck on the easy-listening station" as opposed to "the brakes failed".

There are reports of incompatibilities with the SanDisk Ultra II cards, although that may be mitigated with firmware updates. I seem to recall in the changelog that they worked on some compatibility issues.

That would be me. I don't disagree that it's a bug and needs to be fixed. I'm embarrassed by the people that make such a huge stink about a really minor bug and imply that the entire unit isn't worth buying because the odometer doesn't tell you how long of a slug trail you left.

Regarding the "errata" on the Vista HCx, I think there's just a few people making a lot of noise about really one trivial outstanding issue: the odometer/trip computer doesn't track slow movements. There was only two other annoyances (WAAS sometimes becoming disabled and the "calibrate compass" popup), both of which have been corrected with the latest firmware update. It's a great unit; if you can't resuscitate your Vista I'd recommend upgrading to it. Hard to beat for ~$250. It is a good unit and there's nothing wrong with recommending it. But all of you saying the odometer bug is trivial are just assuming that everyone else's needs are the same as yours. It may be trivial for you, but for those who need the feature, it's NOT trivial. It IS a bug and it is NOT acceptable. There's no conspiracy... they're not incompetent... they're working on it. BUT it is also unreasonable to suggest that we should forget about it or not mention it when people ask about buying the HCx. You don't know whether or not it will be trivial to someone else, so let them read "the noise", consider their needs, and decide for themselves whether or not it matters enough to postpone their purchase or buy something else. In the meantime, I'll go on record as saying that I very much appreciate those who have been making noise about this bug. It is a feature that matters to me and their posts were extremely useful in helping me decide whether, and when, to buy the HCx. I agree that it's a bug and needs to be fixed. I'm sorry if the trip computer is a critical function for you, but I get embarrassed to think that Garmin sees the griefers as representative of normal users. Honestly, when you look at the unit software and all of what it does, it had remarkably few (and minor) bugs when it was released. People are making a HUGE deal about this and scaring people away from getting a fantastic GPSr.

That's a really poor reason to choose a Cx instead of an HCx. The odometer issue is really trivial compared to the drastic improvement of the HCx in it's ability to get a fix in sub-optimal conditions. For me, I'd rather have the ability to have a satellite signal in virtually any terrain than worry about a lagging trip meter.

I have to give this a rousing round of applause. It's really a non-issue as "slow" means under 2.2mph. And it may be even less than that since the firmware upgrade; I haven't heard anyone say with any authority what the new number or algorithm is now. Perhaps the above quote should read "very slow movements". And it's not like you can't get an accurate number if you want it; the track log distance is still fine; always has been. I have a Vista HCx, and I LOVE it. You won't be sorry. Sooooooooo glad to hear that there are others that think the same as me. I'm getting tired of the "it's broken real bad and unacceptable", "Garmin is incompetent" and "it's a conspiracy" threads.... It works real well and I LOVE mine too... I'm just trying to bring some perspective back here. I keep reading posts from people who are "waiting for Garmin to fix the bugs" but really, when you think about all it does, it's been nearly flawless since even the original software version (compared to most field-upgradeable consumer equipment) and there's no showstoppers. Simply put, it's a great piece of hardware for a great price. My only gripe is just what applies to all GPS devices on the market today--poor support for geocaching (I shouldn't have to carry an extra piece of paper or a PDA to get complete cache information).

Assuming you're using cGPSMapper to create your img files, you might take a look at the Test_img.mp file. It has a handful of settings that aren't documented in the manual. I was just looking at it and came across a setting called "DrawPriority" that goes in the header. Here's a snippet from the example file: ;DrawPriority = (optional, default = 25) ; set the draw order for the map - the higher value, the later map is redrawn in the GPS - map with DrawPriority=27 ; will be visible over the map with DrawPriority=25 Might be worth a shot to lower the value to get your landcover map drawn first, then allow the other maps to draw over top.

Regarding the "errata" on the Vista HCx, I think there's just a few people making a lot of noise about really one trivial outstanding issue: the odometer/trip computer doesn't track slow movements. There was only two other annoyances (WAAS sometimes becoming disabled and the "calibrate compass" popup), both of which have been corrected with the latest firmware update. It's a great unit; if you can't resuscitate your Vista I'd recommend upgrading to it. Hard to beat for ~$250.

I'm not so sure about that. I ordered my shield together with my Vista HCx from offroute.com and the closest type they had available was the "eTrex Color" and I believe the packaging says "C Series Screen Shield" (sorry, I don't have it in front of me). It has the same poor fit issues. So, if it's right on yours (or close enough), then they fixed it. Or it could have just been the packaging they had available for you.

The GPS has two sets of software--the system software and the chipset or GPS software. Given that you just updated your system software to 2.40, you probably need to update the chipset software as well. Those symptoms are common for a chipset software failure and updating or reinstalling the chipset software typically fixes it. You should be able to use the WebUpdater to check for chipset updates (even if you already did it, try it again). For the Vista HCx, and I assume also the Legend HCx, the current version of chipset software is 2.30. If that fails, you can try the hard reset option (search this forums for details).

I hope to do some more checking with my Vista HCx over the weekend, but I my initial experience with the recent upgrade has significantly improved my satisfaction with this GPSr. Clearly, 2.30 had a bug in it and Garmin, imho, has done a lot to correct the problems with that bug in 2.40. I think it is important that we remember the context here - we are talking about a consumer grade GPSr. It is a unit that functions well, but with an established margin of error. As near as I can tell, the Vista HCx that I own is now functioning within the margin of error that comes with the product's description. If you need something more accurate than that, perhaps you should consider spending several thousand dollars for a survey quality instrument and the software necessary to calculate the correction. If the track distance and the odometer distance don't agree closely then clearly something is wrong. Buyers should not be involved in the debugging-the-new-product do-loop. Debugging should happen Before sales begin. This ain't rocket science, it's simple and easy to understand. Heh. You clearly misunderstand how the sales department operates. The job of sales is to promise the moon to the customer and sell things that engineering hasn't developed yet. Then Marketing sets arbitrary "release" dates which gives engineering even more heartburn. (No, I'm not a bitter engineer. Why would you think that?)

The issue with WAAS sometimes being disabled after cycling power was fixed in the previous software version. And if you look at the change log, the odometer issue was addressed, too (matches the track log now). Note that the track log has ALWAYS shown the correct distance--it was just the trip computer/odometer which was not correctly accumulating distance at slow speeds. But now that should be fixed.

It sure is...that, the smaller display, Odometer, and WAAS issues are the reasons why I am not getting the Vista HCX. It does beep when navigating (might not be as loud, though). The WAAS issue was fixed with the last firmware update, and the odometer issue looks to be fixed with today's firmware update. So, you're left with the smaller display issue, but the drastic difference in backlight brightness might tilt that one toward the Vista HCx despite being physically smaller.

No. This is an issue with the trip computer. It does not affect tracking. it effects tracking if you have it set to track by distance. it doesn't track if it doesn't think you moved. It will still track. The trip computer is triggered by the rate of movement. People are complaining that this threshold rate is too high for pedestrian use.

Take a look at mapcenter (http://mapcenter.cgpsmapper.com/) and see if there are any free maps of Washington that are interesting to you. The US Census TIGER data can be made into some passable street maps. An exciting new development with the Open Street Map project: They're in the process of importing all the TIGER data into their database. Washington and Oregon are completely done, and the rest of the country is coming along (it's a long process--they project about 6 months to finish). There is a script to convert the OSM data to a Garmin map (I'm working on making it support auto-routing).

As far as I know the tide stations are only available for the US. There's a further complication, too. You can download that "Recommended US Tides" exe, but if you don't have Mapsource installed (i.e., a version which comes with maps, NOT the free Trip and Waypoint Manager), the Tides update won't install. There is a workaround that will allow you to install Mapsource (see here: http://freegeographytools.com/2007/garmin-...ource-for-free), but even when you do get everything installed, you still can't send the tide maps to the device using Mapsource without having another map set to combine it with. You can load them with sendmap, though (go to the Garmin\USTIDES directory and select all three .img files). Long process, but it works. I got the tide tables on my Vista HCx earlier this week.