TeamSeekAndWeShallFind

Logging a find on your own cache obviously isn't," the worst thing," but it is totally lame, sad, hilarious and pathetic. I would like to know more about this DNF potential log posting during maintenance of your own cache ?? Are you saying your cache was moved so far from where you left it you couldn't find it ?

Do you use the GC.com site ? Yes, you do ! SO PAY FOR IT !! That's the bottom line. If you use it, pay for it. Period. GC.com needs to stop allowing users to USE their site FOR FREE !! Cough up the cash or get lost ! Gimme a break, $30 bucks for a year ? Huge bargain. If I ran the site I would hike membership up to at least $50 per year.....no actually $60 !! Where would you go ???

First of all you have to actually find these PMO caches to make a judgment as to wether they're better,worse or, "not even as good," (slaughter the english language). We have 74 caches hidden and ALL of them are PMO. Know why ? Because we use the GC.com site everyday just like the rest of you and if you use the GC.com site everyday, PAY FOR IT. Do you think the site is run by fairies ?? Magic ?? Cough up the $30 for the year and shut up. We would pay double that. If you use it, PAY FOR IT ! AGAIN, the only members who whine up a storm about PMO caches ARE PREMIUM MEMBERS !! It's bizarre !

Guess what ? You'd be wrong. Today someone logged 10 caches they hid with someone else. They both went out to do maintenance on one and the other one LOGGED ALL OF THEM AS FINDS and said, "I'm taking the smiley on this...I"m taking the smiley on this.....I'm taking the smiley on this.....I'm taking the smiley on this..... Get it ? PS: There's nothing "subtle," about me. I don't beat around the bush. If I deleted someone's log and they logged a find on their own cache page to make up for it, I COULDN'T CARE LESS and I wouldn't make up some thread to pull the wool over your eyes like I"ve seen other people do. You wouldn't believe how many people log our caches yet their names aren't on the actual paper log. Why not respond to the thread instead of trying to stir up some old pot. Again, gimme a break. That all you got ??

Great idea ! I'll say it for you.... "Logging your own cache is WRONG !" There. Snap.

I also have an adopted one that I have never been to before. Not sure what I will do when I eventually get out there to a spot I have never been and take a look at it. I will have to search. That's different ! If you adopt a cache you haven't found yet then of course you should go hunt it and log it. Totally different scenario.

How about the homemade cardboard poker chip sig item with the person's name written around it in marker ?

Have you ever seen someone log their own cache as a find ?? Have you ever seen someone/both people, log a cache they hid together as a find ? This is HILARIOUS AND ONE OF THE MOST RIDICULOUS, ABSURD, LAUGHABLE Geocaching nonsense practices I've seen to date. Gimme a break ! (Edit: I think we'll go log all of our own caches tomorrow and get ourselves 67 more points. Then I'm gonna go play hide and seek by myself. I'll hide myself and then see if I can find me !)

And this one here !! We can't seem to get away from her. Everywhere we go she's sure to follow with a link or a comment. She HATES OUR GUTS yet she checks up on EVERYTHING we do and say. It's truly bizarre. If you hate someone would'nt you stay as far away as possible from them ? We don't go running around looking for her and wondering what she's up to but she does with us. EVERY TIME we post something she's right there !! She sees our name and it's, "Click." As for the link she provided you...She bashed us and the cache in question in a local forum. Blah-Blah-Blah, her and all her buddies but then they went out THE VERY NEXT DAY and hunted that same cache !! They talked about PMO caches for 2 days and went on and on about how much they despise them and cache owners who have them. They even bashed GC.com for wanting people to buy premium memberships, but they went out the very next day and looked for it !!! That's right ! We deleted her log ! You know why ? Because the hypocrisy was DISGUSTING, that's why. The weirdest part is, all the people in the local forum who contributed to bashing PMO caches, ARE ALL PREMIUM MEMBERS !! Tell me how that makes sense ? It would make sense if it was a regular member who couldn't afford a PM, but it wasn't. They ALL have paid memberships !! It's like the cachers who complain about caches not being handicapped accessible but they're not handicapped !! The only person who should complain about PMO caches is a non-premium member and the only people who should complain about wheelchair accessible caches are cachers in wheelchairs. None of it makes sense ! She got her log back on our page but she's still complaining about it by posting the link her again and the only reason she posted the link here AGAIN is to stir up the pot. Gotta go. Ugghh.

Irrational ? You got that right ! We're sick of people who lie in the forums. Here's another guy, part of the B&bd gang. They went around all last summer ripping up our cache sites because they got mad that they couldn't find some of our difficult micros. They BOMBARDED us with pleas for clues. They left logs with cuss words. We ran into him on the street one day while checking a cache and he admitted to us with his own mouth that his buddy tore up the tree at our cache site ! This guy's buddy tore every branch off the tree because he couldn't find the cache. After we saw that we gave a full descrip of the cache and exactly where to find it so they'd stop destroying the place. So, you can all gossip and blab about us and post ridiculous comments like the one above because that's what you all do in forums. Gossip,Gossip,Gossip but not one of you has the facts and that makes me laugh ! If you did have the facts, you would all feel really stupid. Why don't you ask this guy here about how he makes up fake geocaching names and sends us creepy emails ? We know it's him because the creepy emails come from the same IP address that his regular emails used to come from(back before the war started we were civil to one another). Go ahead, ask him about it. While you're at it, ask the other one what he did to our cache last summer ? He'll deny it of course but we know the truth because we saw him do it ! This is ridic and as with most forum discussions, it's going nowhere. None of you know us, if you did you'd probably like us. We don't lie, we don't cheat and we don't mislead others with half truths. This topic started with a lie and went downhill.

Everything this person says is a lie. Our caches are ALL OVER this guy's neighborhood but he hasn't hunted a single one ! What does that tell you ? That's right ! It tells you that what I've been saying all along here is THE TRUTH ! He has a problem with us personally which is THE ONLY REASON he deleted our bug swap note, which by the way was for 10 bugs/coins that sat in his cache for 3 weeks so we picked them up and moved them all. So use your heads. His story about cleaning up his cache page is bull and as far as deleting posts to keep the pages short, his caches are out in the boonies right next to ours and the cache in question might get a visitor every few months ! There are maybe 10 of us in the whole area. So it's not like this is a cache in the middle of an area bustling with cachers. Last week we placed 6 new caches in the park right next to his business. These caches are closer to his business than his own caches are but he hasn't hunted a single one because HE HAS A BEEF !! Then he logs one of his friends's new caches right by ours and says, "We've done every cache within an 11 mile radius of Sycamore." The note was for our benefit to show us, "I'm ignoring your caches." You people here don't know half of it. He deleted our note for one reason and one reason only and it's all personal. It's fine with us that he despises us but DON'T LIE TO EVERYONE ! You can all jump on me and believe this guy, I don't give a hoot. Bottom line is, we do not lie. We do not pull the wool over other people's eyes. We do not mislead others in the geocaching commnuity. We only found out about how this guy feels when he deleted our post. We then realized he's friends with the locals who destroyed all of our cache sites. It goes on and on. Bottom line is, DON'T MISLEAD PEOPLE IN THE FORUMS and make us look like the bad guys. We don't give a hoot that he deleted our post. Who cares but what we do care about is when we see people start threads but only provide half the story and/or half truths. That's wrong and it's misleading and decietful. You all might not like us or think we're rude but you know what ? We're tired of the lies and the mistruths. Hate us, who cares, but TELL THE dadgum TRUTH AND THE WHOLE STORY WHEN YOU START A THREAD ! Later. He's acting all professional here with his comments and apologizing and everything else. It's ALL PHONEY ! Gimme a break !

You apearantly have not read the discussion here, but can you please quit with the petty personal attacks? We're having a discussion of ettiquite here, not bickering over some personal situation. You're making yourself look very foolish, since you clearly have not read the discussion, and keep attacking the OP, when they never even brought up your name. That's not really allowed here, so please quit. There are MANY people who delete "Notes" on the Caches they own. Many of them are even in their right mind. Do you understand that deleting these "Notes" does not affect the location or milage of the Traveler?? Do YOU understand that the op didn't delete our note for the reasons he's telling you he did ? You apparently haven't read what I've written. I'm "attacking" the op ? If I am, it's BECAUSE HE'S LYING TO ALL OF YOU ! Hello !! They deleted our post FOR PERSONAL REASONS and NOTHING whatsoever to do with cleaning up the cache page. "Discussion of ettiquite? More like a discussion that began WITH A LIE ! Later.Done.Better things to do.

Well...You're right, I don't. This thread isn't about the ugliness you're experiencing. The thread is about whether it's OK to delete Notes that were only written to facilitate a Bug Drop. These forums are not the place to come and start attacking people by name, so you may want to keep that in check. I don't beleive I was even commenting on the ugliness you're experiencing, as most of the clueless people here also were not. Can you take the ugliness elsewhere, so we can continue discussing the question at hand? Thanks. Let's see...The question was "Deleteing bug drop notes - Acceptable?" My answer...I don't do it but it is acceptable, however, to avoid potential "Ugliness" an email to the author of the note explaining the deletion would be helpful. Here's the bottom line on this particular situation with the op. Baloo&bd deleted our post on December 6,2008. We then deleted their post on January 5th, 2009. DO THE MATH !! They deleted our post 30 days before we deleted theirs yet they go around trying to get everyone to believe that they're stumped as to why we deleted their post. I don't care what kind of post it was. They deleted us so we deleted them. If they wouldn't have deleted ours, we wouldn't have deleted theirs ! It's that simple. Baloo&bd DID NOT delete our post for ANY OF THE REASONS THEY'VE POSTED HERE ! They deleted if for personal reasons so DO NOT let them fool you with their jibberish about cleaning up cache pages etc... because it's a bunch of BULL !!!

Watch out everybody !! GONIL'S in the house !!

WARNING: b&bd are master web spinners and if you have even half a brain you're not going to buy the bs above. What cache owner in their right mind would delete someones tb/coin swap note ? NONE !! b&bd would have you believe they did so to save others from the deadly long scroll? BS ! They deleted our bug/coin swap note FOR PERSONAL REASONS !! We posted on 12-16. They deleted on 12-18. THEN they logged a find on one of ours 31 days later. We deleted it. Wouldn't you? They're still posting fairytales telling all of you that they have no idea why ???? Get real.

Ya know what ? a delete is a delete.doesn't matter what it is. period.it's an insult. I've edited my post to include that I also feel it's insulting. The important thing to remember is that deleting "Finds" will alter the statistics of the player, and the Cache. "Notes" do not alter the statistics of the player or the Cache or the Bug, "Notes" are just a way to communicate information about the Cache/Bug, rather than a way to count activity. I agree that it's rude though. Fighting rudeness with rudeness will only ruin the game. Please. Like everyone else here, you have NO CLUE about the facts of this UGLY LOCAL SITUATION. Why ? Because b&bd conveniently left that info out. If you care to know THE TRUTH, ask us. If you want half truths, keep reading b&bd posts. Wow, it's amazing how some people have NO CLUE how to tell the truth.

Ya know what ? a delete is a delete.doesn't matter what it is. period.it's an insult.

OMG ! baloo&bd have a serious problem with posting grievances and leaving out the facts!! Their "found it" log was deleted because our "swapped travel bugs/geocoins" note was deleted exactly 30 days earlier ! they deleted us.....we then, 30 DAYS LATER DELETED THEM....THEN after we deleted their log they posted that they were "clueless, dumbfounded, duh, this is a first for us....blah-blah-blah" as to why their "found it" log was deleted but they conveniently forget to mention that they deleted us first !!!! we always love people like this. baloo&bd are the supreme owners of the lying by omission crown. DO NOT believe a word they say !! "I was dumbfounded......" baloo or is it bd ? Storytellers trying to pull the wool over the eyes of whoever will listen. baloo and/or bd aren't dumbfounded by anything except the nasty little micro we hid 620' from their back door.

OMG ! baloo&bd have a serious problem with posting grievances and leaving out the facts!! Their "found it" log was deleted because our "swapped travel bugs/geocoins" note was deleted exactly 30 days earlier ! they deleted us.....we then, 30 DAYS LATER DELETED THEM....THEN after we deleted their log they posted that they were "clueless, dumbfounded, duh, this is a first for us....blah-blah-blah" as to why their "found it" log was deleted but they conveniently forget to mention that they deleted us first !!!! we always love people like this. baloo&bd are the supreme owners of the lying by omission crown. DO NOT believe a word they say !! "I was dumbfounded......" baloo or is it bd ? Storytellers trying to pull the wool over the eyes of whoever will listen.

OMG ! baloo&bd have a serious problem with posting grievances and leaving out the facts!! Their "found it" log was deleted because our "swapped travel bugs/geocoins" note was deleted exactly 30 days earlier ! they deleted us.....we then, 30 DAYS LATER DELETED THEM....THEN after we deleted their log they posted that they were "clueless, dumbfounded, duh, this is a first for us....blah-blah-blah" as to why their "found it" log was deleted but they conveniently forget to mention that they deleted us first !!!! we always love people like this. baloo&bd are the supreme owners of the lying by omission crown. DO NOT believe a word they say !!

I almost forgot I was supposed to get back here with the camo tape brand name !! It's from Menards and it's Duck brand. It's awesome. It melds,molds and holds up in minus temps. We hid 4 caches today and used this tape to tape the containers around branches. It was 22 degrees and it worked like a charm. Good stuff !

We buy this AWESOME camo tape at Menards. It clings immediately and as you wrap with it, it melds to the container like skin. We wrapped a whole series of small and medium containers with it and placed them in -5 temps with a -30 windchill, loads of snow and everything and they're in perfect shape. The containers turn out so great with this stuff. I just wrote to my better half for the exact brand and I'll post it here when he responds. We LOVE camo duct tape !

Kinda funny. What I read was how someone assume that their cache was ransacked by a geocacher because in their opinion the cache was "in no way, shape, or form muggable". Then after making the cache a PMO, assume that the person who ransacked their cache not only checked the cache page once but many times. Seems they already "knew" who the culprit was and wanted to use the audit log for "proof". So far their has been no proof shown that th cache was ransacked by a cacher or that a name in the audit log proves guilt. It seems this is more of an argument between two geocachers, probably over something completely different that has escalated into making unsubstantiated charges. Of course the OP doesn't name names because they know they can't prove a thing. Making a cache a PMO cache may prevent a local cache pirate or maggot (someone who signs up for a basic account in order to find caches to ransack and steal things from), since the $30/year provides some sort of barrier to that person. Making a cache a PMO cache doesn't protect it from someone you are having a personal dispute with. Nor does it protect a cache from being muggled by a muggle who happens upon it. IMO, there is no cache that is so well hidden or out of the way that it is not muggable. And even then, if a muggle doesn't find your cache, some animal will. Even an animal may be able to get an ammo can opened and have at its contents. It does sound that your adopted cache was more likely found by a person and possibly even by a geocacher you had a dispute with. Just saying that using PMO for protecting a cache has limited functionality. I tend to agree with Vater_Araignee that a good reason to make a cache temporarily PMO is as one way to thank others for supporting the website. Give them a chance to be FTF or to find the cache while it has some better swag in it. Then open it up for others to find. There will always be debate as to what reasons justify making a caches PMO. But as it stands now, no one should have to justify why they made their cache PMO. In this I agree with the OP. They want to have PMO caches, including making a cache they adopted PMO, they have that right. However, when a PMO cacher takes a friend or a scout troop on a cache outing, don't expect that they will know what are PMO caches and what aren't. While they could get a PQ that excludes PMO caches, most won't. Many will use their offline database to setup the caches they are looking for and since the GPX file doesn't contain this information, they don't know what is PMO and what isn't. Because of this, TPTB have left (reopened) a backdoor. Non-premium members who have found a PMO cache along with a premium member friend should be allowed to log this cache. I'd even let stand the log of a basic member who has figured out the way to get the coordinates of a traditional PMO cache and logged on it on their own. There goes that ol' assuming thing again. You made up your own story right here and assume we have some kind of dispute with this person ! Guess What ?? WE DON'T !! Don't know him,never met him,never spoke to him. Maybe HE'S the one with the problem, ever think of that? I told you once already, WE KNOW WHO TRASHED OUR CACHE !! So don't say we're assuming we know. I'll say it again,WE KNOW WHO TRASHED OUR CACHE. Ok, is that understood ? Does anybody ask for facts around here? Let me answer my own question....NO !! I'll say it one last time..If you don't like PMO caches, don't hunt them. We pay for the containers,the swag,the logbook etc... We go out and find a place to hide it. We maintain it. We can do whatever we want with it and that includes slapping the PREMIUM MEMBERS ONLY tag on it ! We don't care if our cache/caches sit for a year without being hunted because eventually there will be sane cachers who'll hunt em' log em' and respect em'. Our membership expires in September but I think I'll renew it today. Later. While you're checking our profile, check our Lure of the Wilderness cache pages. The last one, Caw of the Crow, took me about 40 hours to create in my spare time. We also ordered a VERY COOL crow container to put out in the field,( $17 plus shipping),which we just did on Saturday. So between the money spent there and the endless hours it took to create the pages for that series, we have every right to make them PMO if we want to !! Note to self: "Dear Self, Stay away from forums."

Your consideration for others is well evidenced in your reply to me. I'm am sorry but your initial comment was irrelevant to me and I thought you totally missed the point. The thing about the backdoor in has nothing whatsoever to do with the point I was trying to make. If it's a point to you then that's fine but I started the thread and it's not my point. So, I apologize if I hurt your feelings but don't now come back and say I'm inconsiderate because of one little comment. You don't know me. You have no idea how considerate I might be. So again, instead of assuming, ask and get the facts. You didn't like my unfair comment now I don't like yours. Are we even? Can we move on now? I hope so, geez !