SeattleWayne

I can understand the disdain, but, also... it kinda is no longer your property when you choose to place it in the woods or elsewhere, and post the exact coordinates of its location in any public space... jm2c Cache containers that are created or purchased and placed on public property are still very much the property of whoever created and or purchased said cache container.

What's a logbook?

What irks me. Lets see. Trying to find a geocache and not being able to find it three or four times, and then asking CO for a hint and getting no response. Uhm, what else. Mystery Caches now irk me. And poorly maintained geocaches.

I'm not seeing that many preforms. I think that's because pill bottles are more accessible and much cheaper--mostly free. In Europe it's completely opposite. We see a lot of preforms, but almost no pill bottles. Not surprised Europe isn't littered with empty pill bottles turned geocache. America is the leading country hooked on pain pills so it's no surprise how many pill bottles are used as geocaches. Only one drug in the top ten prescribed medications in the USA could be considered a "pain pill", number 8 on the following list. And if you have diabetic neuropathy or shingles (the indications for Lyrica) you know this is not a drug with significant potential for abuse. Synthroid (levothyroxine), 21.5 million Crestor (rosuvastatin), 21.4 million Ventolin HFA (albuterol), 18.2 million Nexium (esomeprazole), 15.2 million Advair Diskus (fluticasone), 13.7 million Lantus Solostar (insulin glargine), 10.9 million Vyvanse (lisdexamfetamine), 10.4 million Lyrica (pregabalin), 10.0 million Spiriva Handihaler (tiotropium), 9.6 million Januvia (sitagliptin), 9.1 million The leading prescription medication in this country is for a thyroid disorder. Several meds on that list are for asthma or COPD. I don't use pill bottles for caches although they are OK for a log holder inside a cache. Chances are good that you know a geocacher that takes one of these medications. They are not "hooked on pain pills" Source: WebMD Pain pills or not, you literally just reinforced my point that Americans like pills hence all the pill bottles used as geocaches.

This thread...

If you do hold on to the TB, and as you find other caches, your TB can "visit" each cache you find. That's something I learned while holding on to TBs.

Your two cents is pretty useless, and combative and offensive to me. Yea, I'm combative... I've said nothing offensive. If you're referring specifically to the last statement, being that you've been around geocaching for 12ish years, I'm more than certain that there have been times when people have looked at you sideways when you've explained it to them. I can see how my choice of words could be interpreted as insulting the game, but that is far from what I was trying to do. Where do you get off telling people to get a new hobby if they're in it for the numbers? Who put you in charge. Only 149 finds in 17 years, I think YOU should get a new hobby because you don't look committed to the game Pretty sure, even in this thread, I mentioned that I had been away from it for a long time, and when I got into it (in 2003, at 12 years old, with my father) I didn't always log my finds.. and when I was in my teens, when I would go out, I would never log my finds, as I was much more of a casual cacher, and just went as more of a guest with my father. So if I take a few years off and only log some of my finds, can I stay in the hobby? Yes. I too would like to stay in this hobby after a short break.

I never discouraged the act, or said anyone shouldn't log their finds, only that when I was young, it wasn't a priority of mine. I was away from the hobby at that time. I was a teenager, not really interested in hanging out with my parents, and without any way to continue to be an active cacher on my own. Perhaps what I wrote was a bit over the top, and 'in the heat of the moment'. If you want to pursue the highest number of caches possible, go for it... I just don't feel that is what geocaching is... there are similar scavenger hunt systems that are more geared towards that type of competitive spirit... It is my opinion that geocaching is not meant to be competitive (in that nature). I apologize if what I said before was offensive, or in poor taste. Reviewers have a final say for a reason - but that's not to say that, the judgement that once lead that person to become a reviewer, and the trust that was built to get them there, has not shifted. People's ideals, beliefs, etc... change. The problem is that, if a reviewer becomes clearly misaligned with the actual rules, then maybe they should no longer be a reviewer... Competitive geocaching would mean I care about others' numbers. I do not care how many Finds anyone has. I only care about how many Finds I have.

Your two cents is pretty useless, and combative and offensive to me. Yea, I'm combative... I've said nothing offensive. If you're referring specifically to the last statement, being that you've been around geocaching for 12ish years, I'm more than certain that there have been times when people have looked at you sideways when you've explained it to them. I can see how my choice of words could be interpreted as insulting the game, but that is far from what I was trying to do. Where do you get off telling people to get a new hobby if they're in it for the numbers? Who put you in charge. Only 149 finds in 17 years, I think YOU should get a new hobby because you don't look committed to the game Pretty sure, even in this thread, I mentioned that I had been away from it for a long time, and when I got into it (in 2003, at 12 years old, with my father) I didn't always log my finds.. and when I was in my teens, when I would go out, I would never log my finds, as I was much more of a casual cacher, and just went as more of a guest with my father. That's cool that you didn't or don't log your finds. I hope it's okay that some of us do log our finds. Since you suggested that those of us who are just in it for the numbers need to find a new hobby.

Your two cents is pretty useless, and combative and offensive to me. Yea, I'm combative... I've said nothing offensive. If you're referring specifically to the last statement, being that you've been around geocaching for 12ish years, I'm more than certain that there have been times when people have looked at you sideways when you've explained it to them. I can see how my choice of words could be interpreted as insulting the game, but that is far from what I was trying to do. Where do you get off telling people to get a new hobby if they're in it for the numbers? Who put you in charge. Only 149 finds in 17 years, I think YOU should get a new hobby because you don't look committed to the game If this guy is our new boss then lots of folk are going to be looking for a new hobby. So sad.

That's why we create CITOs to right our wrongs, and make ourselves feel better about leaving millions of plastic trash all over the world. We shouldn't be leaving plastic trash. Every cache should have an owner who will monitor their cache listing, check their cache when it needs checking, then pick up their container when they no longer want to monitor and maintain it. In a perfect world that should be happening. We both know thousands of caches probably get left out there to rot because people lose interest. And a CITO or two will cancel out those thousands of caches left out there to rot? Have you organised / attended a lot of CITO events? I only attend CITOs during CITO week so I can get a cool, fancy souvenir.

Yeah, darn this game. It's all about the numbers these days. Sheesh. I tell ya. The point of Geocaching is FINDING CACHES. Also, if you find the cache and it's all broke, full of water and missing a log book, and you take initiative to replace the container, put a new log book in said container and then appropriately email the CO and say, "Hey buddy. I found your cache but it was in bad shape so I went ahead and fixed her up a bit. Cheers!" How does that bring more harm than good? 1) it saves the CO a trip when the community comes together and helps each other out by keeping the game moving along, and 2) you found the cache, and replaced the broken cache with a not broken one and putting it back in it's original spot. How is that harming anything? Most often the CO is gone. He doesn't care. He has left litter, and now you have left litter. Your container is ownerless and you are not going back to maintain or remove it. An ownerless container is litter. It's about the integrity of the pastime. That's why we create CITOs to right our wrongs, and make ourselves feel better about leaving millions of plastic trash all over the world. We shouldn't be leaving plastic trash. Every cache should have an owner who will monitor their cache listing, check their cache when it needs checking, then pick up their container when they no longer want to monitor and maintain it. In a perfect world that should be happening. We both know thousands of caches probably get left out there to rot because people lose interest.

Yeah, darn this game. It's all about the numbers these days. Sheesh. I tell ya. The point of Geocaching is FINDING CACHES. Also, if you find the cache and it's all broke, full of water and missing a log book, and you take initiative to replace the container, put a new log book in said container and then appropriately email the CO and say, "Hey buddy. I found your cache but it was in bad shape so I went ahead and fixed her up a bit. Cheers!" How does that bring more harm than good? 1) it saves the CO a trip when the community comes together and helps each other out by keeping the game moving along, and 2) you found the cache, and replaced the broken cache with a not broken one and putting it back in it's original spot. How is that harming anything? If someone can't maintain a cache it's best to remove the cache and open the area for new caches. Why bother maintaining a cache if you know someone will come along and do it for you? What if the cacher no longer plays and left years ago? While you have good intentions, it's in the best interest of everyone to remove poor maintained caches. And with that logic, assuming that the CO went MIA, and left his Tupperware container behind, and no one emails the CO, CO doesn't respond to reviewer threatening to archive the cache, cache gets archived anyway...who cleans up the CO's mess he left behind? No one. What I'm saying is: email CO, saying "hey- I have a replacement cache to help you out..." even if he doesn't respond in a month or two, at least old cache is removed and new cache is placed since no one is going to pick up CO's old crappy container anyway.

Yeah, darn this game. It's all about the numbers these days. Sheesh. I tell ya. The point of Geocaching is FINDING CACHES. Also, if you find the cache and it's all broke, full of water and missing a log book, and you take initiative to replace the container, put a new log book in said container and then appropriately email the CO and say, "Hey buddy. I found your cache but it was in bad shape so I went ahead and fixed her up a bit. Cheers!" How does that bring more harm than good? 1) it saves the CO a trip when the community comes together and helps each other out by keeping the game moving along, and 2) you found the cache, and replaced the broken cache with a not broken one and putting it back in it's original spot. How is that harming anything? Most often the CO is gone. He doesn't care. He has left litter, and now you have left litter. Your container is ownerless and you are not going back to maintain or remove it. An ownerless container is litter. It's about the integrity of the pastime. That's why we create CITOs to right our wrongs, and make ourselves feel better about leaving millions of plastic trash all over the world.

Yeah, darn this game. It's all about the numbers these days. Sheesh. I tell ya. The point of Geocaching is FINDING CACHES. Also, if you find the cache and it's all broke, full of water and missing a log book, and you take initiative to replace the container, put a new log book in said container and then appropriately email the CO and say, "Hey buddy. I found your cache but it was in bad shape so I went ahead and fixed her up a bit. Cheers!" How does that bring more harm than good? 1) it saves the CO a trip when the community comes together and helps each other out by keeping the game moving along, and 2) you found the cache, and replaced the broken cache with a not broken one and putting it back in it's original spot. How is that harming anything?

I used to believe this but i know and have seen firsthand that it doesn't work. What i like is the opposite of what most others go for these days. The vast majority want quick and easy. A cache that's different or challenging rarely gets a visit. I have also seen firsthand that setting a good example doesn't work. It's appreciated but it doesn't work as a driving force. When allowed, the lowest common denominator seems to be the driving force. More, cheaper, with the least amount of effort (the PT model) drives the geocaching culture. Also, I keep seeing this huge thing with people whining about how only premium members have access to higher difficulty/terrain caches. That is just a perception. It's not true. PM caches are no better then regular non-PM caches. Edit to add....you mean how the app pretty much doesn't work unless you get a PM. On the website you will see that most caches that don't appear on the app, those that are higher then D/T 1.5 caches are non-PM caches. I was wondering about that, my gf who is brand new to caching was trying to view a cache on the app, that I had placed (so I knew it wasn't PM only) and it said it was PM Only... So I'm not sure what the restrictions are? I tried to search around (a little) and couldn't find any official info on the website, though haven't dug through the forums thoroughly... It's in the Help Centre but it took some searching.... Geocaching® app & GPS Features Chart Oh, jeez after reading this, I seriously want to smack anyone who has issues with these limitations... Support the company or get out.. It's reasonably priced.. and while I don't use the GC app for anything beyond the messages, even just having that full API access from other apps and platforms... it's worth it. Besides that, people need to understand the cost to build and maintain all of this. Especially today, the development aspect (notwithstanding ANYTHING ELSE) of Groundspeak, Geocaching, and all that is related to it, is astronomical. Technology changes so quickly, and the demand for (constant) new technical integration is exceptionally high. As a business, they cannot ignore that, and thus, they must expand and grow... I just don't understand why people aren't okay with the costs? I came back after over a decade, and bought premium without even thinking about it... I think it's reasonably priced too. Geocaching in general, is way more affordable then it was before the app. $35 gets everything you need. Back when I started I paid about $800 to geocache -- handheld driving/hiking Garmin GPS with maps, HP pocket computer for PQs (+ $30 for a PM to get PQs). Every 3 years I needed to upgrade my GPS--new faster GPS with better features and new maps cost minimum $500. I still (just came back to GC) bought a new GPS, but I mostly just trust the accuracy a lot more, and sometimes, prefer to the format. But I bought an Etrex 20x, Open box, and downloaded open source topo maps in any case though... you can geocache just fine in MOST areas with JUST the App (maybe a third party app, that I won't mention), and the premium membership... If you break down the yearly price, it's $2.50/mo for PM.. or, just over $0.08/day... I spent $5 on coffee this morning... just saying... ...Sounds like a Sarah McLachlan commercial.

I seek out the Letterboxes just for the icon and I have no intentions of using the stamp. I have a couple of friends who love to Letterbox so we find them when the three of us go Geocaching. I'm glad it's around, honestly.

Wow, the game has changed over the years so much...

I wonder if there will be a souvenir this weekend...

Email the cacher and let them know how amazing their geosense are to find a archived cache that has been inactive for three years.

I was just about to say... if this is another "the good ol' days of geocaching" or "how the game has changed" post... Lol.

I own a few caches and I don't feel punished at all. After all, this is a hobby not a job. I don't expect anything in return for placing caches because I know what I'm getting into. I place a cache, (depending on how far away from home) I can expect I'll have to spend an hour or two driving out and fixing it because some cacher didn't screw the lid back on the right way or it came up missing. It's a game, and a fun one. The game is always evolving in good ways and bad because there are 3 million caches out there to find and probably more than double that in people playing the game. As technology gets better, and more people join, new ideas are going to spawn. You may or may not like them, and that's okay. I think people have an expectation of finding the cache on the first try and that's expected. It's a game of finding caches. If the cache is maintained it shouldn't be that hard to meet that expectation as the CO. I understand you like a bit of uncertainty when heading out, and no one has a problem with that. When I set out to find caches, that's the goal. To find caches.

Only log mentioning 'mold'. From a cacher with four finds. Cache hidden in 2002. A great cache with 283 finds. Yes. The CO passed on several years ago. And is no longer doing maintenance. One mention of 'mold' by a newbie was enough to archive the cache. If it were on my watch list, I would have gone out and scrubbed it. Very sad to see this cache archived. It was a great old cache. The reviewer also mentioned that if the CO wants to replace/repair that they will unarchive it.