ardfarkle

I have an iQue m5. Sent you email...

See, I had not seen this before, but I just got verification of CS to CN upgrades from Garmin: ------------------------------------------------------ Thank you for contacting Garmin International, I would be happy to help you with this. We will treat the conversion process just as an update. The current update to City Navigator is $75.00 from a previous version, the update from City Select 7 to City Navigator 8 will be treated with the same update cost. ------------------------------------------------------ As far as price, I would assume the reason the CS upgrade price was dropped to $50.00 was due to its discontinuation. From what I was told above, I have to assume the upgrade price from CS to CN will be $75.00 I also asked about how preloaded units would be updated but they didn't address this.

I received City Select V6 with my iQue M5. I requested a V7 upgrade DVD and had it within a week. I just hope I'll be able to 'upgrade' to City Navigator V8 verses buying it new since there is no future upgrade path for City Select.

Although it was mentioned earlier that Garmin does not upgrade between different products, I would hope an upgrade from City Select to City Navigator would be an exception since new City Select 7 customers would be offered no upgrade path otherwise. This is not addressed anywhere on the Garmin site that I can find, so I sent an email to Garmin asking for some sort of official statement regarding it. In addition I inquired about an upgrade path for products that are pre-loaded with City Select. I'll post their response as soon as I get it...

The naming error was probably caused by selecting standard ISO 9660 verses adding the Joliet extensions needed for long file names. This limited the burning software to using 8.3 filenames as shown in your example.

I'd worry more about reducing the overall lifespan of the unit (MTBF). Also the backlight will get dimmer over time.

I have an iQue-M5 on the way. I just decided to bite the bullet and spend the extra cash. I need a Windows PDA for a project anyway. I'll get a 60CS a bit later on...

Well, the Quest is now out of the running. Display is too dim in direct sunlight. It looks like it will be the M5 first and then the 60cs...

I know where there is a Quest I can try out. I'll give it a bit more time to see if I can get used to the buttons. Thanks, I thought so. Now I have two days to decide between the Quest and the M5

You know, I actually thought about this for a few minutes... Screen's too small and I didn't care for the joy-stick.

I'm getting ready to buy a new GPS and I can't seem decide between three units. The funny thing is they are each based upon different product concepts/market segments. I'm considering either a Garmin 60CS, Quest, or iQue-M5. I've already ruled out Magellan models, the Garmin 76 series, Quest 2, eTrex, Rino, and Palm based units. I only mention this because I'd rather not deal with the, "Why aren't you considering the 'put your selection here' " questions if at all possible. Here's my comparison so far: 60CS Pros: Rugged design Long battery life Easily field replaceable AA batteries Waterproof Large user base (more mechanical and firmware fixes during product life) Quad-Helix antenna (perhaps) Cons: Requires spending ~$120.00 more to get detailed maps (City Select) 56MB memory (I would like more) Clunky user interface compared to touch screen IMO Antenna is fixed (non-folding) Size (a potato with an antenna) Quest Pros: Very compact Good battery life Waterproof 115MB memory Comes with City Select North America unlocked Price considering City Select (~$335.00-$380.00 delivered) Fold-away antenna (patch) Voice prompts (with external speaker) Cons: Battery is not field replaceable Clunky user interface compared to touch screen IMO M5 Pros: Large display area (320x240 - 3.5" diag) Touch Screen UI (I really like this) Vertical or horizontal map orientation (also nice) Comes with North America City Select unlocked Ability to use other GPS software (Mapopolis, Delorme etc) Can run non-GPS related Pocket PC software Has an SD card memory slot (1-2GB would be sweet) Fully integrated, ie no separate GPS or BT unit hanging off Fold-away antenna (patch) Voice prompts from built in speaker Removable battery (* if it's field replaceable) Blue-Tooth enabled Wi-Fi can be added via combo Wi-Fi/Memory SD card (Sandisk SDWSDB-256) Cons: Expensive Battery life sucks big time (although an external pack is available) Not waterproof Need to buy an SD card to obtain substantial memory for maps ($109.00 for 1GB) Non-removable battery (* if it's not field replaceable) Note: I know I can get 1GB SD cards for less than $109.00. I need high performance cards for interchangeable use in my DSLR (Sandisk Extreme III). It should be obvious by now that I really like the features of the M5, and the contest would be over if it weren't for the battery life. Yes I can attach a small battery pack, but part of the idea of the M5 verses a separate pocket PC with BT and BT enabled GPS unit is that it's all in one and there is nothing hanging off of it. If the battery life were long enough that use of the battery pack would be infrequent, then I'd have an M5 in the next few days. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that with only a 4-5 hour battery life, I would have the battery pack attached to the M5 more often than not. Now I have to decide if I can live with this given the features it offers. Hold on, it gets even more convoluted. I will probably end up with two new GPS units within the next 6 months to a year and I want the purchases to be complementary if possible. Example: Both the Quest and M5 come with City Select North America unlocked. If the version of City Select that comes with these units is the full retail version, then it's good for use on two GPS units. Given this, if I purchase a 60CS first, I either need to put up with the base map until I purchase one of the other two units (not a chance), purchase City Select and then sell the copy that comes with one of the other units when I purchase it, or I need to decide between the Quest and the M5 as my first choice. OW, my brain hurts... If you're still reading this then perhaps you've been faced with this dilemma before, so I guess at this point it's time to ask a few questions of those in the know. BTW, Geocaching features are not an issue for me since I do all of this manually. First, for both Quest and iQUE users: Is my assumption that the City Select CD that comes in the package is the full retail version? In other words it's not a crippled version or an 'SE' type version that only installs on the product it comes with. Is this correct? If it cannot be installed on two GPS units then I have to re-think my thinking a bit (ya think?). Ok, on with it... For Quest users: Is the smaller button arrangement hard to use, and even if so, is it easy to get used to? If you know, does the 60CS have any obvious advantages (other than batteries) that come to mind? Do you find the patch antenna easy to use in the field? It's not the reception as much as, is there an easy way to deploy it and then pocket it so it will continue to produce track points? Is the battery life in the field similar to the stated specifications? Is the battery charge rate in the vehicle sufficient to render battery life in the field a moot point in many/most cases? For iQUE-M5 users: Is there a battery saving or sleep mode when running in GPS mode that still allows the unit to log track points? Approximately how long does the battery last when running just in the GPS mode with the backlight off? Does the unit seem to be well built in relationship to other Pocket PCs? Is the PC performance fair compared to other units? Does the unit seem to be stable, ie no lockups for little or no reason? Is the battery easily field replaceable (~1 minute), or is it only expected to be performed when the battery pack has reached the end of it life cycle? If you know, do you find the QUE touch screen user interface to be easier to use than that of the 60CS , Quest, or other such Garmin units? As you can see, as much as I like the M5 features, I'm concerned about its overall reliability and usability when used in the field. I know this was a long post, but I felt it was better to get all the questions out in the open rather than play posting tag until I revealed enough information to get tangible replies. I hope those of you who might know the answers will take the time to respond. I'd really appreciate any input you might have. I'm hoping to make the order by Tues-Wed if possible. Thanks in advance... Ardfarkle

If you're going to spend that much why not spend a few hundred more and get its big brother? Here's the data sheet... http://products.thalesnavigation.com/asset...ileMapperCE.pdf

The 76C and 76CS manuals are now available: http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP76C_76...wnersManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP76C_76...wnersManual.pdf

Here's the 60CS manual: http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP60CS_OwnersManual.pdf

Are you talking about the Mediterranean, Northern Europe, British Isles? In the case of the British Isles, it may be hard to obtain unless Garmin has worked out a licensing agreement with the U.K.H.O. who considers the data to be the property of the Crown, or in particular, the Ministry of Defence. I you have a Palm PDA and can't find, or don't wish to buy, the tide data for your area, you can download a free application called Tide Tool. However, even it does not have British Isles data anymore. http://www.toolworks.com/bilofsky/tidetool.htm Here are the areas covered by Tide Tool: http://www.toolworks.com/bilofsky/tide20regs.htm Warning: As with all tide predictions, don't count on them in cases that can be life threatening. Tide Tool is usually accurate within a few minutes in North America, but drifts somewhat in other locations. In addition, even recent authenticated data from a tide station can be made inaccurate by things like very low barometric pressure, high winds, and storms. This is true for ANY device that bases tide predictions on tidal station data, including the 76s. I use Tide Tool for tide pooling, and take my readings with a grain of salt. While I will trust it so I arrive at the right time to access low tides, I am careful if I walk too far down a row of beaches not to get marooned on one where there is no exit without traversing waves or deep water. Trust me, this can happen fast!

Bummer.... looks like a great unit, but it doesn't display tide tables. It looks like I'll need to get a 76s. Hey Garmin, loose the games and add tide tables...

Does anyone know if the 60 series offers tide predictions like the 76s? Although I love the color display and battery life for the 60c/s, this could be a deal buster for me. There are currently no manuals available for the 60 c/s that I can find.

I might order a 60cs after inspecting the user manual a bit....

quote:Originally posted by jasy:Looking forward to a new drawing with millimeters Just use Google. Example, type: 5.7 in to mm in the search window and it well automatically be understood as a conversion from inches to millimeters. The first line listed will be: 5.7 in = 144.78 millimeters Google has a lot of neat hidden/unknown features as well as several specialty search categories. I just love the catalog search. http://catalog.google.com/ ------------------- John - ardfarkle@d30.info

quote:Originally posted by ARTE: quote:Originally posted by ardfarkle: Take the speculation that these units will not have european vs. north-american versions. There are 2 reasons that this is unlikely. First, the licensing of the map/routing data is expensive, and therefore will add a significant chunk to the cost. Second, if the available memory is indeed 51 MB, then the most likely use is a 64 MB chip with a 13 MB basemap. Not an expert, nor am I in any loop, but my Garmin iQue allows me to load different basemaps - North America, International etc. Given what seems to be Garmin's penchant for incremental improvements/modifications that build on previous production units, I suspect they may do something similar with their next top-of-the-line GPSr's. Just my speculation. Actually, this was from Pneumatic's post, but it's a good point. There is no reason there could not be more than one basemap stored in ROM/Firmware that can be offloaded into RAM during boot. This is similar to multi-language data that is loaded from ROM based upon user selected parameters. I have no idea who they license the maps from, or what they pay per unit, but I would imagine it is becoming less of an issue as GPS units become accepted as mainstream consumer electronic items. ------------------- John - ardfarkle@d30.info

quote:Pneumatic wrote: It seems that the specs (specification vs. speculation) aren't consistent. I'd agree here. This is quite often the case with early non-official information. quote:Take the speculation that these units will not have european vs. north-american versions. There are 2 reasons that this is unlikely. First, the licensing of the map/routing data is expensive, and therefore will add a significant chunk to the cost. Second, if the available memory is indeed 51 MB, then the most likely use is a 64 MB chip with a 13 MB basemap. This sounds reasonable, and I would expect this is the case. Even after the base map is offloaded to RAM and the RTOS system areas are mapped, etc., I would imagine there should be at least 40-45MB+ for map data. Maybe more. quote:Also, the stated 30 hours on 2 AAs seams specious, unless there's been a fundamental breakthough. The little yellow eTrex only gets ~20 hours, and the color 60 is supposed ot have a larger, color screen (presumably backlit for daylight readability), faster processor and more memory, all of which take a signicant amount of power on the scale provided by AA batteries. Perhaps not. I would guess the 30hr spec (if accurate) is for the basic non-map GPS 60 model when run in battery saving mode, and the other models would fall in line behind it according to their feature sets, just as is the case for the eTrex models. As far as the new color models also being low power, their is something that was mentioned which hit a nerve. This was the mention of using TFT color displays. Current color displays are mostly TFT already and perhaps the new models are going to use the newer 'reflective' TFT displays. Normal backlighting, no matter how bright, does little to increase contrast in bright outdoor situations, and it eats batteries like candy. The idea behind the reflective TFT displays is that they can display full color data with plenty of contrast when used in bright outdoor situations. In fact, the brighter the ambient light, the brighter the color on the display. This is done without the use of the backlight making for very low power consumption. When used in very subdued lighting the backlight is activated and the screen displays data in the same manner as current color LCD displays. I would imagine their energy use is comparable to traditional color displays when using the backlight. While color reflective TFT displays suffer from metamerism and are not the best choice for critical color work, they should work well for general color GPS mapping purposes. NEC Daylite Laptop using reflective LCD display: http://www.necsolutions-am.com/mobilesolutions/products/Versa/E120_DayLite/ The additional RAM shouldn't consume much energy, and if the CPU and other support chip die sizes have been reduced by a significant amount, the processor could be speced to run at an increased clock speed while still offering reduced power consumption. There are other places where power can sometimes be saved such as converting any existing TTL glue logic to CMOS, replacing any linear power regulator circuits with switching units, etc. If the GPS 60 units are "all on one chip" designs, Garmin might have reduced power consumption by a considerable amount. quote:All in all, this has the flavor of a preliminary marketing proposal/plan that got leaked. I'm guessing that it's targeted for christmas '04, and that the specs will have morphed considerably by then. -- Pneumatic Perhaps you're right, but these units look to be more than just operational mock-ups to me. Since the data appears to have come from a dealer I have to assume they are close to market. Garmin would never release such data to dealers a year ahead of the target release date. Here's a possible scenario if the GPS 60 line is replacing the eTrex line (just a hopeful guess): Garmin starts offering rebates on all eTrex models at the end of October or mid-November. They sell out remaining stock of eTrex units during the Christmas season allowing their dealers to reduce stock. They then introduce the GPS 60 line at CES in January. At least this is what I'm hoping for ------------------- John - ardfarkle@d30.info [This message was edited by ardfarkle on October 17, 2003 at 03:26 AM.]

My overall length came out about the same as yours, but I came up with a slightly wider dimension. I wanted to visualize how it might fit in my kit so I edited an image and added dimensions to it. I based these dimensions upon a 1.5" x 2.2" 'visible' screen area. If the 1.5" x 2.2" refers to the 'active' area, then the dimensions may be as much as 5-10% greater than those listed. ------------------- John - ardfarkle@d30.info [This message was edited by ardfarkle on October 15, 2003 at 04:34 AM.]

As an OT side note, it's best to leave any found antlers where they lie. Not only is it illegal to collect antlers on NPS land (or any thing else for that matter), shed antlers are an important calcium source for other small animals. Gnawing on them also helps promote healthier teeth by helping to remove tarter. It's not that they dislike Crest tarter control toothpaste so much, they just hate to use toothbrushes... Here's a bit more info: http://www.nps.gov/yell/kidstuff/AHgame/leavthem.htm ------------------- John - ardfarkle@d30.info

... we need to get'a life ...

I've been using an older top of the line "FoodSaver" by Tilia (similar to the new Professional II at ~$270.00 U.S.). It belongs to a friend, and it screwed up about 6 years ago. I repaired it for him and said I'd keep it in good shape if I could use it whenever I wanted. He said yes. Recently I was buying some bags for it at my local Walmart when I noticed a new unit by Black & Decker called the Freshguard VN-200. It was only $58.99 so I was skeptical at first, but it had a real vacuum pump (some use a turbine - stay away) and they showed a picture where it crushes 6 soda cans in a bag. I know this takes a vacuum of at least several inches of mercury, so I decided to give it a try. To my delight, it seemed to compress things every bit as well as my friends Tilia did, and now I would not need to borrow it when I wanted to pack up a few items. I've had it for about a month now, have packed several hundred items, and it seems to be just what I was looking for. Unfortunately, a month is not enough to comment on the mechanical longevity of it's design, but it comes with a 1 year limited warranty so we shall see. As good as it seems to be for the money, there are a few cons.. Pros: Costs less than $60.00 Uses a real vacuum pump Has enough vacuum to tightly compress items and form the bag around complex shapes Has a removable liquid catching tray for easy cleanup (meats, etc.) Has a port for canisters and will use the Tilia mason jar sealer Works with most other brands of vacuum bags (Tilia FoodSaver bags work great) Mine came with a 'bonus' 11" x 18' roll of bags (~$10.00 at Walmart) Cons: Takes 2-3 times as long to pack and seal an item as the top end Tilia Requires constant hand pressure during sealing process (ie, no lid lock) Runs vacuum pump when just making a bag (ie, sealing the cut bag, or custom sizes) Uses wire verses band sealer. This yields a narrow seal (1/32"-1/16") Works better with Tilia bags than its own (see below) Vacuum chamber is farther from sealer wire than I'd like (wastes ~3/8" of bag for each seal) Rounded shape of front lid disallows sealing close to thick objects (another ~3/8") Has no internal roll storage or built in bag cutter Putting the cons aside, the VS-200 seems to be an excellent value and most of the cons are more my personal complaints than things that will affect the overall operation of the unit. However, there is one exception to this that should be mentioned. The bags that were supplied with the unit are 3 ply bags with 2 outer plies of smooth sheeting and internal textured strips that only extend inward a few inches on either side of the bag, whereas the Tilia 'FoodSaver' bags are 2 ply where 1 ply is smooth and the other is textured. This means most of the bag area on the Black & Decker bags are just 2 ply consisting of the 2 outer smooth sheets. While this should not be a problem in many cases, I found the bags difficult to seal properly if I was doing a tight seal directly against the contents. I'm not sure if it's the lid deforming a bit or for some other reason, but these bags work best when you allow a bit of flat area between the lid and the contents. In addition, cutting the bags to make smaller sizes is difficult since you always need to have a percentage of textured bag to allow the air to be removed properly. One more note: The instructions say to apply pressure on the lid until the light goes constant green. I've found the best and most consistent seal is achieved by holding pressure on the lid for 3-4 seconds after the light goes green. This appears to be the same for either bag type, but is essential IMO for the Black & Decker bags to obtain a good seal. I've ordered another bag type that sells sells for $20.00 for 3 - 11" x 33' rolls. If these work well it will reduce bag prices by about 50% after shipping costs. [This message was edited by ardfarkle on September 18, 2003 at 07:36 AM.]