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seventhings

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Everything posted by seventhings

  1. And now a word from the least technologically sophisticated (or, most technologically unsophisticated) semi-serious, NGS-centric benchmark hunter on the planet. Intersting thread (I think). So, I use MapSource to upload published coordinates to my handheld, but I don't download anything from my handheld to MapSource. (When I find a mark with SCALED coordinates, I note and write down the coordinates I read off the handheld, convert them to the NGS format (manually) and include them with my recovery report.) And the whole idea of changing my habits and learning to do a "garmin-file ---> Gethvlst ---> HH file" exercise is, well, way too [old dog - new tricks] for me. But, I do have a rather large capacity for "writing down - arithmetically converting - typing into Excel" kinds of stuff. To the point: can I enter the appropriate data into an Excel spreadsheet and convert it to/save it as a "pipe-character (|) delimited ASCII text file" named "HH.txt" with the same result? Second question: regarding "For those recoveries that contain positions in the descriptive text, send me a list of PIDs for those points." Excel OK? Thanks, Will
  2. Very interesting (and well-documented) case. Papa Bear = "... conflation of the ... recoveries." BDT = "... somewhat homogenized." This illustrates something that experienced benchmark hunters eventually realize: The datasheet descriptions and histories, while immensely valuable (the most valuable tool for finding marks), are not inerrant. Over the years, the official record occasionally gets "conflated", "homogenized", inadvertently abridged and, from time to time, updated with confusing, ex post facto material. I guess that happens when a database is migrated from hand-written to type-written to digital media. Several years ago, sixthings found a 1903 1911 monumentation description that advised using a helicopter to get to the station. (He mentioned it in the forum but I can't find it now). There were no subsequent additions to the history. The 1903 1911 helicopter is either a clerical phenomenon or the original survey party was led by Nostradamas. 7
  3. holograph - Thanks ++ for the excellent statistics page and maps. This is very cool stuff! I say this even though I have fallen to #3 on the NGS list (kudos to AZcachemeister and the shorbird for their very impressive numbers for 2007). It looks like PFF will pass me soon. I must come up with a plan to regain my former position. Hmm, perhaps another 10,000 mile road trip later this year. 7
  4. CallawayMT - I did not know that either. Interesting. Also very enlightening is holograph's depiction of the scale of the entire chain of islands relative to the lower 48. Kudos to you on the recoveries in Hawaii. Double kudos to the long-suffering Mrs. CallawayMT for putting up with your benchmark hunting on (what should by all rights have been) a very special vacation. Will
  5. junglelogik - A radial search centered on your cooedinates yields nothing in the Geocaching database within 0.6 miles. But that is not surprising: for every station listed in Geocaching.com, there are several (if not several dozen) set by the Armey Corps of Engineers, the USGS, and/or various state, local and private agencies. In my experience, this is especially true around ports, docks, old gun batteries and new highway bridge construction sites. These locations certainly have need of accurate positions and elevations, but the people that need and use this info aren't necessarily motivated to go to the trouble of submitting the stations for inclusion in the NGS database (source of the Geocaching database). As "89SC" mentioned above, the disk you saw may not have positional or elevation info stamped on it, but somewhere (probably in the nearest Army COE office) there's a datasheet that describes the disk and its position or elevation. Will
  6. junglelogik - Could you provide us a description of where this disk is located (with handheld coordinates, maybe)? Chances are it is one the gozillion or so benchmarks that are out there that are listed in neither the Geocaching.com nor National Geodetic Survey database. There are lots of ACE disks that never made it to the databases that we, here, use. But, with some additional info, we can confirm my speculation. will
  7. NGS Surveyor - Excellent reference material; thanks! 7
  8. I have found several (maybe four or five) marks where the discrepancy between the published SCALED coordinates and my handheld was in the 0.3 - 0.5 miles range. Typically, though, the difference is more like 100 feet plus or minus 50 feet. I often wondered how the coordinates could (occasionally) be so far off, but one search that I did offered some strong circumstantial evidence as explanation. I went in search of two marks: KV4832, (the spire of) St. James RC Church, in Woodbridge, NJ, and KV0202, PBM B48 33AMS, a chiseled cross on one of the church's porches. The church was described as located in the southwest angle of the intersection of Amboy Ave and Grove STREET. When I got there I saw that the described location was occupied by a 1960's vintage school, and I concluded that the old church had been razed (there was a new church across the street in the northwest angle of the intersection). I also concluded that the chiseled cross had been destroyed along with the rest of the church. But I noted that my GOTO indicated that the chiseled cross' coordinates were located about 0.5 miles to the north. Curious, I drove north on Amboy Ave and followed my GOTO to the intersection of Amboy Ave and Grove AVENUE. This is what happens, apparently, when you scale coordinates off an old ESSO street map. w
  9. Difficult Run is correct. And the stake appears to witness a piece of rebar that has been driven into the ground to mark the property line or corner. Very common. Will
  10. Usually, Toyota Tacoma, V-6, FWD, six-speed manual; long cab, short bed. Occasionally, Subaru Outback, V-6, all-track, five-speed automatic; four door. Both excellent vehicles. Though the Subaru does not have enough clearance to go too far off-road, on the road it goes about 30 percent farther than the Toy on a gallon of gasoline. Will
  11. Rumpled - Good job, well-done. Will p.s. - now, prepare yourself and your loved ones for a wicked onset of the salted-peanut syndrome.
  12. holograph - Thanks ++ for the great stats and charts. It looks like it's a lot of work, but it's work we all appreciate. Will
  13. Kudos, mloser. That's an exceptional accomplishment. Finding all the marks in a pre-determined area of significant size, be it a county or a boundary line, etc., is very difficult because the effort is subject to the law of diminishing marginal returns (with a vengance). Having attempted (well, currently attempting) a similar feat, my sense is that the second twenty percent of the marks is ten times more difficult (time, effort, permission, etc.) than the first twenty percent. And the third twenty percent is ten times harder than the second twenty percent, etc. etc. The process may be subject to quantification using some sort of benchmark findability Richter Scale. In any event, it's a tough thing to do and I congratulate you for having done it. Will
  14. RE: Finding "un-documented" marks - This for the benefit of those who are relatively new to the benchmark hunting community: I think most benchmark hunters who have been at this for a few years have stumbled on, found or otherwise come across dozens (if not hundreds) of marks that are not in the Geocaching database. Occasionally, a benchmark hunter will find a mark that is not in the Geocaching database, but is in the NGS database. (In fact, most experienced benchmark hunters consult (via radial search or search by county) the NGS database to see if there are additional marks in their geographic area of interest.) (Some benchmark hunters use the NGS database as their primary reference database.) Usually, however, the accidental mark is in neither database. I call these "no-PIDs". There are approximately six gozillion of them out there. Experienced benchmark hunters have learned to examine found marks very carefully because marks in Geocaching are often destroyed and replaced by no-PIDs. For example, when a state's DOT or contractors replace or upgrade a bridge, they often destroy the documented mark(s) mounted on the bridge and replace them with new marks. The new marks may show up (often as "RESETS") in the Geocaching database if they were set and documented before 2000. They may show up in the NGS database. Often (usually?), however, they don't show up in either database. In the past four years (and not counting Lewis and Clark commemorative disks), I have found 55 marks that are in the NGS database but not in the Geocaching database, and 126 marks that are in neither database. I suspect that those numbers are not out of line with those of many other benchmark hunters. Will Edited in a vain attempt to comply with the rules of Standard English.
  15. Someone at NGS is gonna be in hot water with Deb!!!
  16. Recently, “BruceS” came across a previously-undocumented Corps of Discovery II Lewis and Clark commemorative disk at Canoe Camp, Nez Perce National Historical Park, Ahaska, ID (about 33 miles east of Lewiston, ID). Being the responsible sort, he promptly waymarked the four-inch disk. This brings the number of waymarked Lewis and Clark commemoratives to 31. Rather than append this announcement to the earlier (long) thread on the subject Lewis and Clark - original topic, I thought I would provide a clean list of all the commemoratives that we know about. I solicit everyone’s efforts to keep their eyes peeled for more Lewis and Clark commemoratives. People who are knowledgeable on the subject suggest that there may be “dozens” of commemoratives (set by local agencies for local celebrations) that are unknown to the NGS or to the Geocaching/Waymarking community of enthusiasts. Here goes (in approximate order in which the disks were set or dedicated): 1. Monticello, Charlottesville, VA, 12-inch, no-PID, 01/14/2003 (National Signature Event = BICENTENNIAL INAUGURAL: JEFFERSON’S WEST). Monticello 2. Harpers Ferry, WV, 12-inch, PID = DF4764, 04/12/2003. Harpers Ferry 3. Waterfront Park, Louisville, KY, 12-inch, PID = DH2917, 10/18/2003 (FALLS OF THE OHIO). Louisville 4. Falls of the Ohio State Park, Clarksville, IN, 4-inch, PID = DH2918, 10/25/2003 (FALLS OF THE OHIO). Falls of the Ohio 5. George Rogers Clark Home Site, Clarksville, IN, 4-inch, PID = DH2913, 10/25/2003. GR Clark Home Site 6. Locust Grove Historical Site, Louisville, KY, 4-inch, PID = DH2912, Oct, 2003. Locust Grove 7. United State Mint, Philadelphia, PA, 12-inch, no-PID, 03/12/2004. Philly Mint 8. Missouri History Museum, Forest Park, St. Louis, MO, 12-inch, PID = DG7734, 03/13/2004 (THREE FLAGS CEREMONY). St Louis Forest Park 9. United State Mint, Denver, CO, 1-inch, no-PID, 03,15,2004. Denver Mint 10. Lewis and Clark Historical Site, Hartford, IL, 12-inch, PID = DH5812, 05/16/2004 (EXPEDITION’S DEPARTURE: CAMP RIVER DUBOIS). Camp River DuBois 11. Lewis and Clark Boat Museum, Frontier Park, St. Charles, MO, 12-inch, PID = DG7733, 05/22/2004 (PREPARATIONS COMPLETE: THE EXPDITION FACES WEST). St Charles, MO 12. Rennick Riverfront Park, Washington, MO, 12-inch, PID = DG7732, 05/24/2004. Washington, MO 13. Lewis and Clark Historical Park (Kaw Point), Kansas City, KS, 12-inch, no-PID, 06/26/2004 (HEART OF AMERICA: A JOURNEY FORTH). Kaw Point, Kansas City 14. Independence Creek Encampment, Atchison, KS, 12-inch, no-PID, 07/04/2004 (HEART OF AMERICA: A JOURNEY FORTH). Atchison, KS 15. Fort Atkinson State Historical Park, Fort Calhoun, NE, 12-inch, no-PID, 07/31/2004 (FIRST TRIBAL COUNCIL). Ft Atkinson - large 16. Fort Atkinson State Historical Park, Fort Calhoun, NE, 4-inch, no-PID, July, 2004. Ft Atkinson - small 17. Lewis and Clark Interpretive Center, Chamberlain, SD, 12-inch, PID = DH4418, 09/24/2004 (OSCETI SAKOWIN EXPERIENCE: REMEMBERING AND EDUCATING). Chamberlain, SD 18. Fort Abraham Lincoln State Park, Mandan, ND, 12-inch, PID = DH4425, 10/23/2004 (CIRCLE OF CULTURES, TIME OF RENEWAL AND EXCHANGE). Mandan, ND 19. Missouri-Yellowstone Confluence Interpretive Center, Buford, ND, 4-inch, no-PID, Apr, 2004. Confluence - ND 20. Culbertson History Museum, Culbertson, MT, 4-inch, no-PID, 2005. Culbertson, MT 21. Milk River Observation Point, Fort Peck, MT, 4-inch, PID = DI0389, 05/08/2005. Milk River, MT 22. Lewis and Clark Interpretive Center, Giant Springs State Park, Great Falls, MT, 12-inch, PID = DI0232, 06/25/2005 (EXPLORE THE BIG SKY). Great Falls, MT 23. Camp Fortunate, Clark Canyon Reservoir, MT, 4-inch, no-PID, 2005. Camp Fortunate, MT 24. Lehmi Pass National Historical Landmark, Tendoy, ID, 6-inch, no-PID, 2005. Lemhi Pass 25. Travelers’ Rest State Park, Lolo, MT, 6-inch, PID = DH9363, 2006 (this commemorative disk was set by CallawayMT). Travelers' Rest 26. Netul Landing, Fort Clatsop National and State Historical Park, Astoria, OR, 12-inch, no-PID, 11/11/2005 (DESTINATION: THE PACIFIC). Fort Clatsop 27. Lewis and Clark Information Center, Lewiston, ID, 12-inch, no-PID, 06/14/2006 (AMONG THE NIIMIIPUU (THE NEZ PERCE). Lewiston, ID 28. Canoe Camp, Nez Perce National Historical Park, Ahaska, ID, 4-inch, no-PID, 2006 (?). Canoe Camp, ID 29. Pompeys Pillar National Monument, Pompeys Pillar, MT, 12-inch, no-PID, 07/22/2006 (CLARK ON THE YELLOWSTONE). Pompeys Pillar 30. Three Tribes Museum, Four Bears area (Lake Sacakwea), New Town, ND, 12-inch, no-PID, 08/17/2006 (REUNION AT THE HOME OF SAKAJAWEA). New Town, ND 31. Jefferson National Expansion National Historical Site, St. Louis, MO, 12-inch, no-PID, 09/23/2006 (CONFLUENCE WITH DESTINY: THE RETURN OF LEWIS AND CLARK). St Louis - The Captains' return Thanks to Rogbarn, Geo*Trailblazer1, CallawayMT, BruceS, BuckBrooke, wister6813, StripeMark and others for help in getting to all these locations.
  17. foxtrot_xray, piper28 and mloser - Wha!, you guys don't hover to the front door? w
  18. I tend to dress like a phone company worker and I act like I belong where I am when I search for marks. I've had several encounters with LEOs with zero problems (though I was asked to vacate the premises on two occasions: one was posted public property (former prison) in Lorton, VA, and the other was a manned drawbridge in NJ). I've had many interactions with property owners and local passers-by; again, zero problems. I'm just a retired hobbyist working as a volunteer for the NGS. The dozen-or-so property owners that I've dealt with during my hunts for old Mason-Dixon stones (and the like) have been uniformly excellent social experiences. The owners usually seem pleased that someone is dropping by to take a look at their piece of history. I've done quite a bit of reasearch on the MASDIX stones, and I usually know more than the landowner. If they are at all inquisitive, I offer to write a letter detailing all the history that I know about their stone. Several have taken me up on the offer. Two (of the several) rules I follow are: One, don't go near schools when school is in session (unless accompanied by the very charming and totally unthreatening-looking Mrs. Seventhings), and, Two, don't step on private residential property without knocking on the door and getting the resident's OK. Will
  19. HU1800, BOUNDARY MON 0 = MD DEL CORNER, has 61 logs which is pretty good considering that it is not, itself, a major tourist destination, nor is it located at or in a popular tourist destination. The station is the 1932 disk mounted in the top of the 1768 limestone monument at the location surveyed in 1751, and at the southwest corner of Delaware. Of course, 90 percent of the logs are attributable to the fact that there are several caches in the vicinity. HU1800 Edited to approximate standard English. w
  20. As a general rule, I would agree with AZcachemeister. If I found the impression of a disk, I would log it as "DIDN'T FIND IT" at the Geocaching datasheet, and "FOUND - POOR" at the NGS datasheet (with a good description of what I found and why the station is POOR). However, after viewing your photos of OK0126, it looks like you may very well have a righteous DESTROYED bench mark disk (I've submitted similar stations to NGS, and they've been re-classified as DESTROYED). I recommend that you send Deb Brown an e-mail. In the e-mail, recommend to her that she re-classify the station as DESTROYED in the NGS database. Provide a description of what you found at the site; the description should be sufficiently complete and detailed to assure yourself and Deb that the broken concrete monument and disk impression that you found are, in fact, the remains of OK0126, and not some nearby station. Attach your two photos to the e-mail. At the Geocaching datasheet, I would log as "DIDN'T FIND IT" until such time as Deb re-classified the station as DESTROYED. Then, I would change my Geocaching log to "DESTROYED" with "NGS has re-classified this station as DSTROYED as of ________." Absent that (e-mail to Deb), I agree with AZcachemeister: NOT FOUND Will
  21. Shorelander - My opinion - I would report both to the NGS as FOUND - POOR. The object in your photos of MC1715 seems to conform perfectly with the description of the top of the station. In my recovery report, I would say something like "TOP OF POST IS NOW FLUSH WITH THE GROUND. LOCAL RESIDENTS REPORT THAT THE STATION WAS REMOVED FROM ITS ORIGINAL SETTING AND LATER RE-SET OR REPLACED BY AN (UNKNOWN) STATE AGENCY. CURRENT POSITION COULD BE VERIFIED WITHIN THE TOLOERANCE OF A RECREATIONAL-GRADE HANDHELD GPS UNIT ONLT. USE WITH CAUTION." It seems highly unlikely to me that the state DOT would fashion a new but identical granite post to preserve the position. Its also unlikely that the current post (whether new or used) occupies the exact same horizontal position as the described station. For MC0284, if you are very very confident that the impression you found was, in fact, the impression of MC0284, I would describe what I found, and include the handheld coordinates. For Geocaching, I would log each as DIDN'T FIND IT. I think these two examples represent those rare cases where the Geocaching "standards" (whatever they might be) are higher than those acdceptable to the NGS. But, with sufficient description and qualification, FOUND - POOR reports to the NGS would provide potential users of those two stations with very useful information. Will
  22. LV - Very nice first effort. Many more! Will
  23. Ditto, multi-bravo and many thanks to the graphster. W
  24. I dunno. None of the 42 recoveries that I submitted in the last week of July or the third week of August are reflected in the current datasheets. Hmmm. Will
  25. Callaway - Great find and great story. I will pass on news of your success to sixthings. Will
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