# Waterboy

+Charter Members

336

1. ## Trail Maintenance

Spring is here, and with spring comes maintenance of the trails and parks that the majority of geocachers use. I would like to encourage all cachers to volunteer for trail work. Common work done in spring includes: 1. Moderate brushing, clipping and clearing. 2. Painting blazes or constructing cairns. Work requiring a team includes: 1. Major brush removal 2. Creating or re-routing trails 3. Bridge and Lean-to maintenance or construction 4. Stone work, such as creating steps on inclines In you live in the Delaware Valley one group to contact that performs trail work is the DV-AMC (Delaware Valley Appalachian Mountain Club). Request cachers involved with other clubs, conferences, and organizations list them.
2. ## Distance Accuracy

To answer this question I would have to know something about the B&A trail. Start with its full name. Is it a winding trail? Does it have significant elevation changes? Have you contacted the trail maintainers to learn how they measured the length of the trail? Which of the two distances measured was larger? If this is a straight line “Rail to Trail” have you calculated the distance between the endpoint? You are talking about a 10% difference in the trail distance. As a trail maintainer of a section of the Appalachian Trail in Pennsylvania I have found a difference of well over 10% on sections. The GPS distance always being shorter. Most of the AT in PA is measured using a surveyors wheel. Many rocky sections are measured using the “extended string method”. This very closely follows the path walked, and is thus more accurate. GPS measures the horizontal distance between sets of points. Thus it will read a lower number if you are turning or have a significant elevation change. Two test you might try to show inaccuracies in your GPS are described below: Test One – Mark two points on the ground, ten feet apart in an area with a clear view of the sky. Call them Point A and Point B. Start your GPS measured distance at Point A. Walk to Point B and back to Point A. Repeat the walk until you have done it 261 times. You have walked a mile, the GPS will read close to zero. Test Two – Locate an outside quarter mile running track. Walk (or run) around it four times. You have covered 1.00 mile. The GPS will read slightly less than 1.00 mil
3. ## Lat/long Vs Utm....

Taking a quick look at the longitudes of caches you found recently I see numbers between W083º30 and W083º55. There is a UTM zone change at W084º00. You are in Zone 17, west of your is zone 16. This is when your math becomes complicated. Similar zone changes will occur at W072º00, W078º00, W090º00 and W096º00 or any other multiple of six degree longitude away from W084º00. An additional note is that UTM has problems in polar regions. I do not believe this has effected any geocachers yet.
4. ## Any Surveyors Here. ?

The first thing to learn about UTM is that you are not using them in your example, you are using a completely different system called “State Planar Coordinates”. State Planar, UTM, and Lat/Long are three different systems. All are currently used and have advantages and disadvantages. Some states require that surveys be performed using the applicable State Planar Coordinates. I do not know if Illinois requires its use.
5. ## Attention Rino 110 Users

For the Rino 110, the latitude and longitude may be displayed in the upper left hand box on Navigation page or on the lower box on the trip computer page. As Cachengrab mentioned, you have a number of options on what you chose to display. Waterboy With Wife
6. ## Water Tight Geocache Containers

Message In A Bottle is a cache that uses a Nalgene bottle.
7. ## AT Backpacking Event

Harrald, Thank you. In Pennsylvania there is more than one commissioner. The State Parks and State Forests are run by the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources (DCNR). The hike is on State Game Land (SGL) administered by the State Game Commission (PGC). In particular the hike is on SGL-170. If anyone would like a copy of the PGC map for this plot in PDF format. Waterboy With Wife
8. ## Any Surveyors Here. ?

This appears to be using the Illinois West State Planar coordinate system NAD83. Still the figures are off. The coordinates: N892920.67928 E2298666.44300 And the coordinates 39.1029N 90.4977W The first set (State Planar) when converted to NAD83 is equal N 39º07’07.9” W090º09’33.6” or N 39º07.130’ W090º09.559’ or N 39.11883º W 90.15932º. This is a distance of about 18 miles from the second set of coordinates. Bluff, is this 18 mile distance reasonable? I considered the possibility of these State Planar coordinates being in NAD27 datum. The result was a longitude of W083º, clearly out of western Illinois. The conversion from State Planar coordinates was done using a free download program made available by the Army Corps of Engineers named Corpscon. Note on five decimal places – Although the least significant figures are meaningless, they will occur on survey maps. Sometimes it is a reference telling you that it was converted from another system/datum. Sometimes it is for legal reasons.
9. ## Any Surveyors Here. ?

Without more information I would guess this is in State Planar Coordinates. Most likely the numbers are in feet, since there are seven digits easting coordinate. There are over 120 different state planar coordinate systems used in the USA. Each state has at least one system, with larger states have more. I just checked your home state of Illinois, it uses two systems. Now the problem is to figure which of these coordinate systems it is. Please tell us where you think the map is located.
10. ## AT Backpacking Event

We have placed a log (Note only, not a find) on the Cove Mountain \$20.00 cache page. Also placed some photos and coordinates.
11. ## AT Backpacking Event

Brian, I could not find anything on the web, so we decided to check the lists of regulations at one of the AT SGL parking areas. We picked the SGL 168, south of Palmerton. Item 29 on there list says: It Shall be unlawful to: 29. Engage in an activity involving more than ten persons, which may conflict with the intended purposes or uses as defined in Section 722 of the Act (relating to use of property), or poses a potential environmental or safety problem. This does not look good. Although someone may argue the AT was intended to hike and the shelter was intended for overnight use. Also I have seen Boy Scouts, clubs and others who use the trail in larger groups camping overnight. If anyone knows more about this, please comment. Thank you in advance. We intend to obey the regulations. We will not list this as an event cache, but will plan to go and limit the number of people who accompany us. Brian, thank you for the request. For all, please accept my apologies.
12. ## AT Backpacking Event

We went to the area today. There is a parking problem at the north end of the section we desire to hike. Re-cycling dumpsters are located in parking area listed in cache description. At the south end of the section there are two State Game Land parking lots. There is a small lot right at the intersection of route 850 and the Appalachian Trail. A large one is about a half mile east on route 850. We will try to locate more parking in Duncannon. If none can be located the hike will start and end at 850. Briansnat, 1. Concerning the dates, since no one else mentioned anything yet. Any suggestion, this is your last chance. 2. The shelter, and most of the hike is on State Game Land (SGL). I do not believe there is any restriction on size of group. Right now I am trying to find an answer for you. It is late now. Will include more detail on what I saw in the area shortly.
13. ## AT Backpacking Event

Please let me apologize since I have not had time to check everything out yet. Within the next two weeks I will make a trip to Cove Mountain to check out some things. Mainly: 1. Parking Areas at both ends 2. Good tenting areas near the shelter 3. The spring 4. Methods to protect our food, toothpaste, shampoo and other edibles from four legged, hairy, uninvited visitors 5. Any other possible hazards I am particularly concerned with the tenting area, since we have a number who replied. (Some have notified me by email). Note to JandM – I will forward you a camping check list. I will also forward a copy to any who request it. Please note that I may make some minor changes after scouting Cove Mountain. Waterboy With Wife
14. ## Hands-free Gps

Here the wife models our method to hold the GPS in front of some Mountain Laurel. The GPS is on the right shoulder strap, and there is a ball compass on the left. System works great. Note the green strap that holds the GPS to the backpack. It does prevent droppage. Waterboy With Wife
15. ## How Far Are Your Caches?

We would like to encourage you to hide that cache an hour away from home. We are assuming that you have a really good location. To date we have hidden 13 caches. As the crow flies, they vary from slightly over 40 miles to almost 100 miles from home. We have not had any problems with maintenance yet. Of course we do pick our spots carefully, and all our caches are in remote areas, or at least what can be considered remote for someone who lives a little north of Philadelphia. Driving time to get to our caches varies from an hour and ten minutes to almost two and a half hours. Hiking time as additional. Waterboy With Wife

17. ## Northeast Toughest Caches

Lost in the Adirondacks is Wanikaminplay Mountain Cache. Hidden in June of 2001, we have been the only logged finders to date. There are two problems with this cache: 1. You might argue that there are two finders, “Jethro” who hid the cache also claims to be a finder. (We will excuse him, his stats show he is not an experienced cacher.) 2. Jethro lists this caches D/T as only 2.5/3.5. We think some people are afraid of this cache. It is tough, but not the toughest we have seen.
18. ## Unusual signs found while caching

The distance to Sawyer Mt. is different from the reverse side of this sign. Found on 9/10/03 leading to A Peek Here, A Peak There!
19. ## Unusual signs found while caching

What does this mean? There is NO DANGER so we may TRESSPASS? Found on 2/29/04 on way to Schunemunk's High Knob
20. ## AT Backpacking Event

We have one extra 2 man tent and an extra 1 man tent. We will take these tents out and set them up as soon as our backyard is dry to verify their status. We have additional equipment also. Let us know what you need and we, or others will try to help.
21. ## AT Backpacking Event

The AT guide for Pennsylvania informs me that there is an intermittent spring nearby. We are planning to go to the area and scout/check it out shortly before the hike to confirm this.
22. ## AT Backpacking Event

AT Backpacking Event After discussing this with several cachers, we would like to know who would be interested in an Appalachian Trail (AT) backpacking overnight hike. The current plan (subject to change due to comments by other cachers or the weatherman) is: 1. Meet Saturday morning in Duncannon, Pennsylvania, at the AT trailhead. 2. Spot some geo-chariots at the end of our journey at the Route 850 AT parking area. 3. Hike about 3 miles (uphill) and find Cove Mountain Twenty-Dollar Cache. 4. Make tent camp and prepare and eat dinner. (The reason we will not plan to stay at the shelter is that AT through hikers have first preference there, and the area should be ready for them.) 5. As darkness approaches we will hike another mile to prepare for and find the Cove Mountain "Lights-in-the-Night" Night-Cache. Then return to camp. 6. On the following morning after breakfast and cleanup we will descend to route 850. As an option we may look for two other caches, Cove's Measure and Cove's End. 7. Shuttles to pick up geo-chariots left in Duncannon If you are interested in attending and do not have a tent or other needed equipment please notify us. We have some extras. Everyone would be responsible for his/her/their own food. We are thinking of this for May 1 & 2, but other dates are open to suggestions.
23. ## Left Handed Geocachers

The better looking half of our team, Waterboy With Wife (www), is a lefty.
24. ## Hardest PA Caches?

We have done Choices, and it is a very good, and a hard cache. However our first two recommendations are for Cary Mountain and Shades of the past.
25. ## Overnight Wilderness Caches

We have had three overnight caching experiences. Before discussing these I would like to say a little about ourselves. We are a retired couple living in eastern Pennsylvania. We do not know of any caches in the northeast that would require us to make a backpacking trip, however we have created our own trips. We did make a backpacking trip in Nova Scotia, Canada, that we could not have done in one day. Our first trip was Arrgg! Refugee Cove in Nova Scotia in October of 2002. The owners of this cache, The Ex-Pierceys Adventure League, have one other cache that requires an overnight stay. In June of 2003 we attended an event cache titled Geocacher's Catskill Backpacking Trip, in upstate New York. BrianSnat organized this trip, Metaphor and HartClimbs also attended. On this trip we found two virtual caches, Air Crash 1 and Aircrash 3. I hope pbexplorer notes BrianSnat’s comment on his log for Air Crash 1. The comment is “The snowmobile trail was really wet and muddy and ATV ruts were deep. Kind of funny that they won't allow geocaches in the Catskill park, but let the destruction of the trails by motorized vehicles continue unabated.” Our last experience was in the Adirondacks, also in upstate New York, in August of 2003. On a two night trip we did Black Mountain Blueberry Cache and Almost Paradise.
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