# Waterboy

+Charter Members

336

1. ## How many feet is a .001 difference

For Latitude, one minute of angle is one nautical mile. For Longitude, one minute of angle is one nautical mile only at the equator. At other locations it varies as the cosine of the Latitude. In other words at 45° Latitude (either north or south) one minute of angle in longitude is equal to 0.7071 nautical mile. A nautical mile is equal to 6,076 ft or 1,852 m.
2. ## Congrats Puppyman on Find #100

Congratulations Puppyman From fellow Pennsylvanians Waterboy With Wife (www)
3. ## Harrald reaches 100 finds and is a Nymph no More!!

Congratulation Harrald. Waterboy With Wife (www)
4. ## Skully & Mulder et al. reach the century mark!!

Congratulations. Quite a family achievement. It was nice meeting you last May at the get together. Waterboy With Wife (www)
5. ## Long Island

A question from a boy who grew up in NYC but is currently living in Pennsylvania. To eliminate many of the Connecticut caches in your searches you may try using a point on the south shore, or even slightly into the Atlantic. To do this I would do the following: 1. Use the "Search by latitude/longitude" function on the "Hide/Seek" page. 2. For example, lets say you live in Riverhead (N 40°55.0’, W072°40.0). Using a Lat/Long search with these coordinates your first 18 caches are in NY before your reach on in CT, which is 24.8 miles away. 3. Now try a point slightly out in the Atlantic directly south of Riverhead (N 40°47.0’, W072°40.0). Using a Lat/Long search with these coordinates your first 42 caches are in NY before your reach on in CT, which is 33.9 miles away. 4. Please let me know if this is helpful
6. ## Not so Trusty Compass

quote:Originally posted by megansdad:Which way will a compass point if you where standing on the north pole? And would it demagnetize it? At the north pole all directions are south, but a simple answer of south, although correct, is not adequate. The compass would point to a location sometimes referred to as the "Magnetic North Pole". This magnetic north pole is not distinct point, it varies. Its general location is in Northern Canada. The compass would not be demagnetized, and would only act weird near the magnetic pole.
7. ## Not so Trusty Compass

Back on July 7, 2001, we were looking for our forth cache, named Boston Cache, located in Harriman State Park, New York. The cache is located near an old iron mine named Boston Mine. On arriving in the general cache area I pulled out our compass and observed it was pointing exactly toward the mine entrance, which was East. Having a compass point other than north was not a surprise. My first compass lessons, given by my mother, included this. This lesson was in the early 1950s, and was also in Harriman Park. About 1955, as a Tenderfoot Boy Scout, I received the same lesson by a mine in or near Harriman Park. Now a resident of eastern Pennsylvania, and a regular hiker, I have seen compasses do many strange things in my present home state. Of course this phenomenon has also been observed in weird New Jersey. The common link being that there are many large iron containing deposits in these hills. In these forums I have not seen any write ups of weird compass problems. If anything, I have read how great the "trusty" compass is. Does anyone have any comments? Additional questions: 1. Any compass stories from Northeast Canada? 2. Any comments/stories on the Boys Scout method of find north using sun and (analog) wrist watch.
8. ## UTM vs. LAT/LON

Kerry, You said “. equations rather long and something a simple calulator simply doesn't/can't handle and are quite extensive.” You discovered the point. With UTM this is true. NOT TRUE IN LAT/LONG. Let me explain and then write the equations. My original question was to find the distance between two caches. These are actual caches that are less than 2.5 miles apart located southeast of Rochester, NY. There names and coordinates are Huff & Puff (N 42° 36.392 W 078° 00.160) 1856 Mule Path (N 42° 34.718 W 077° 58.448) The important thing about these two caches is that one is just east of the W078° longitude line, and the other is just west of the same line. Or they are in different UTM zones, thus difficult to calculate the distance between them using UTM. Now for the calculation: 1. Huff & Puff Latitude = Lat1 2. Huff & Puff Longitude = Lon1 3. 1856 Mule Path Latitude = Lat2 4. 1856 Mule Path Longitude = Lon2 5. Average Latitude (42°35.555’) = LatAve 6. Distance change in Northerly direction (DistN) is equal to Lat1-Lat2. An answer expressed in arc-minutes is equal to the distance in Nautical Miles. In this problem the DistN is 1.674 nmiles. 7. Distance change in Easterly direction (DistE) is equal to (Long1-Long2)*cosine(LatAve). Again we must expressed this in arc-minutes for a distance in Nautical Miles. In this problem the DistE is 1.260 nmiles. 8. Distance=1852*SQRT(DistN*DistN+DistE*DistE) The 1852 is used to convert nmiles to meters. 9. The answer is 3881 meters. Note – Although I am advocating the use of Lat/Long, to do the calculations I defined my own flat plane system, with the midpoint of the line between the two caches as my origin. For units in either northerly or easterly direction I am using nautical miles. Thank you Kerry. The questions you asked helped me to look at the problem in a different way. I hope we meet some day, preferably on a trail leading to a cache.
9. ## UTM vs. LAT/LON

For Kerry. I entered the question for one purpose. Thank you for the response. I did not expect the response you sent. 1. You are right, 17 T 745870.000 4721477.000 and 18 T 253691.750 4721492.548 are the same point, or at least within 3 meters of the same point. 2. I am curious how you calculated the value of 18 T 253691.750 4721492.548. Could you list the equations you use. 3. Now to explain the 2 ½ or 3 meters difference. Let’s take a look at the original positions stated. N 42° 36.392 W 078° 00.160 and 17 T 745870 4721477 are identical N 42° 34.718 W 077° 58.448 and 18 T 255924 4718312 are identical They are right on the extreme edge of two UTM zones. Lets rotate these positions three degrees east, to place them right smack in the center of UTM zone 18. N 42° 36.392 W 075° 00.160 or 18 T 499781 4717104 N 42° 34.718 W 074° 58.448 or 18 T 502122 4714024 4. If you use the two Lat/Long positions the distances around 78° and 75° Longitude are the same. Not so if you use UTM. Also if you calculate a bearing the between point there are problems. 5. The purpose of this exercise is to demonstrate an inaccuracy in one system. Lat/Long is a round earth (spheroid) solution, and the more accurate and consistent. 6. UTM is definitely easier to work with, but it is a flat earth solution. The inaccuracy demonstrated will not effect geocaching activities, or at least how geocaching is performed now.
10. ## Host Cache for Central PA

I have mixed feelings on a host cache. Comments like your "don't even think of parking illegally on campus, you WILL get ticketed!" seems great. But for "One way to get to the Shingletown Climb cache is to take Mountain Road off Route 45" I feel different. The first sentence in the description of the Shingletown Climb cache is “There are several ways to get to our cache.” If you tell him how to drive you may have made the cache easier than what the cache hider intended. Part of the fun of doing geocaching is the use of various maps. The method to drive to a cache includes the knowledge of how to read a map, and how to find the correct map.
11. ## UTM vs. LAT/LON

For those cachers who believe in UTM: Please calculate the distances between these two caches: 17 T 745870 4721477 18 T 255924 4718312 You may use paper, your head, or a simple calculator. (Calculator may have trig functions.) This must be done without converting to Latitude and Longitude. For the cachers who believe in Lat/Lon: Please calculate the distances between these two caches: N 42° 36.392 W 078° 00.160 N 42° 34.718 W 077° 58.448 You may use paper, your head, or a simple calculator. (Calculator may have trig functions.) This must be done without converting to UTM. The two caches actually exist.
12. ## Would you relocate this cache if it were yours... mosquitos...

I recommend leaving the cache. You may consider changing the difficult with the changing seasons. The difficulty would have to do with the foliage as well as the insect population. If as you say your concern is scaring off traffic from an otherwise good caching park, then be sure to post only caches that can honestly be rated 1/1 only.
13. ## Would you relocate this cache if it were yours... mosquitos...

I recommend leaving the cache. You may consider changing the difficult with the changing seasons. The difficulty would have to do with the foliage as well as the insect population. If as you say your concern is scaring off traffic from an otherwise good caching park, then be sure to post only caches that can honestly be rated 1/1 only.
14. ## Congratulations BassoonPilot on find #500

Mark, you are amazing. You make 500 and you jump to do the hard, long, time consuming caches. It is also amazing how fast you walk on these hikes/caches. CONGRATULATONS TO THE AMAZING PILOT (maybe you fly instead of walking & driving)
15. ## converting real estate measurements to coordinates

You have asked a rather general question, mainly because realtor locations are recorded differently in different areas. Most likely you are referring to a State Plane Coordinate system of notation. I believe you are referring to California realtor maps. The State Plane Coordinate system is simply a flat earth approximation of a not quite spherical earth. It is good for a small area only. Where I live in Pennsylvania the state is broken up into two flat earth systems in order to keep the areas small. California is broken into six state planar coordinate systems. The conversion program that I use is supplied free by the Army Corps of Engineers and is named Corpscon. Hope this answers your questions.
16. ## Congratulations Jon3bek

Jon, Bek, and daughters reached the 100 find milestone on June 30th at the "Rutherford View" cache. Congratulations to the jon3bek family of cachers!
17. ## Caches Along AT in Pennsylvania

Oh Danny boy is on the AT. Concerning No Hints #2, I am sorry, I am keeping a policy of no hints. Three other caches that are less than 300 yards from the AT include: Five Hundred Steps Wishing Ghost Town Cache There are five other caches that I know of that are close to the AT including: The Real Swatara Path? Eagles Nest high country The General Stony mt. stash For these five caches, some logical cachers have used the AT, and some have used other trails. I believe there are more AT caches, south and west of those listed by Team BLT, Team Grayrun, and myself.
18. ## distance denoted...

1. The definition of a nautical mile is the length of 1 minute of arc at the equator. One minute of arc at the equator is equal to a one minute change in longitude at the equator. One nautical mile is approximately equal to 6,076 feet or 1,852 meters. 2. The earth is not a perfect sphere. Thus the length of one minute of difference in latitude is not the same as the length of one minute change in longitude. The latitude change is slightly smaller. However the difference is so small it should be considered negligible. 3. For all general purposes we may use 6,076 feet or 1,852 meters as the distance of one minute change in latitude. A distance of 608 ft or 185 m is 1/10 of a minute. 60.80 ft or 18.5 m is 1/100, and 6.08 ft or 1.85 m is 1/1000. 4. With a little trigonometry the distances for 1/1000 of a minute change is longitude can be calculated as that distance in latitude times the cosine of the latitude. 5. The table below shows the distance for 1/1000 if a minute in longitude expressed in both feet and meters at various latitudes: At 00° Lat, 1/1000 of a min in Long = 6.08 ft. or 1.85 m. At 10° Lat, 1/1000 of a min in Long = 5.98 ft. or 1.82 m. At 20° Lat, 1/1000 of a min in Long = 5.71 ft. or 1.74 m. At 30° Lat, 1/1000 of a min in Long = 5.26 ft. or 1.60 m. At 40° Lat, 1/1000 of a min in Long = 4.65 ft. or 1.42 m. At 50° Lat, 1/1000 of a min in Long = 3.91 ft. or 1.19 m. At 60° Lat, 1/1000 of a min in Long = 3.04 ft. or 0.93 m. At 70° Lat, 1/1000 of a min in Long = 2.08 ft. or 0.63 m. At 80° Lat, 1/1000 of a min in Long = 1.06 ft. or 0.32 m. At 90° Lat, 1/1000 of a min in Long = 0.00 ft. or 0.00 m.
19. ## distance denoted...

1. The definition of a nautical mile is the length of 1 minute of arc at the equator. One minute of arc at the equator is equal to a one minute change in longitude at the equator. One nautical mile is approximately equal to 6,076 feet or 1,852 meters. 2. The earth is not a perfect sphere. Thus the length of one minute of difference in latitude is not the same as the length of one minute change in longitude. The latitude change is slightly smaller. However the difference is so small it should be considered negligible. 3. For all general purposes we may use 6,076 feet or 1,852 meters as the distance of one minute change in latitude. A distance of 608 ft or 185 m is 1/10 of a minute. 60.80 ft or 18.5 m is 1/100, and 6.08 ft or 1.85 m is 1/1000. 4. With a little trigonometry the distances for 1/1000 of a minute change is longitude can be calculated as that distance in latitude times the cosine of the latitude. 5. The table below shows the distance for 1/1000 if a minute in longitude expressed in both feet and meters at various latitudes: At 00° Lat, 1/1000 of a min in Long = 6.08 ft. or 1.85 m. At 10° Lat, 1/1000 of a min in Long = 5.98 ft. or 1.82 m. At 20° Lat, 1/1000 of a min in Long = 5.71 ft. or 1.74 m. At 30° Lat, 1/1000 of a min in Long = 5.26 ft. or 1.60 m. At 40° Lat, 1/1000 of a min in Long = 4.65 ft. or 1.42 m. At 50° Lat, 1/1000 of a min in Long = 3.91 ft. or 1.19 m. At 60° Lat, 1/1000 of a min in Long = 3.04 ft. or 0.93 m. At 70° Lat, 1/1000 of a min in Long = 2.08 ft. or 0.63 m. At 80° Lat, 1/1000 of a min in Long = 1.06 ft. or 0.32 m. At 90° Lat, 1/1000 of a min in Long = 0.00 ft. or 0.00 m.
20. ## See if you can make sense of these!

Looking at the first waypoint is: WP,DMX,PNEUF ,48,51.481,2,20.530,10/09/1999,09:29:11,PONT NEUF,F,C I assumed that the waypoint was at N48º51.481’ E002º20.530. Checking this with MapQuest, the mark was right on the bridge. Following this at random I looked at: WP,DMX,REPUB ,48,52.053,2,21.792,10/09/1999,09:30:04,PLACE DE LA REPU,A,N I assumed that the waypoint was at N48º52.053’ E002º21.792. Checking this with MapQuest again, the mark was within the 100 meter accuracy of mentioned at the beginning of the document.
21. ## What do you put in your backpack?

Some items on our list not mentioned yet include: Local maps Wristwatch Hiking stick(s) Swimsuit & Towel Insect repellent Container for berries Binoculars Sweatshirt or jacket Some of these items are dependent on season, weather reports, and particulars for the hike we plan. In addition I should mention that during the summer we wear convertible pants with zip off legs. Shorts for regular walking, long pants for bushwhacking. The legs may either be either worn or in our backpack at the start of the hike.
22. ## Date format suggestion

If we change the date format, should we also change the distance to nearest cache format? Only in the United States are we using miles, everyone else uses metric.
23. ## Date format suggestion

If we change the date format, should we also change the distance to nearest cache format? Only in the United States are we using miles, everyone else uses metric.
24. ## How fast must you walk to keep the new units oriented

I waited a few days to answer this question. I wanted to do some field testing with my Garmin III plus. Since this unit only orients itself by calculating a difference in position, it appears that it is the distance you travel, not the speed. The time to update is also dependent on the Expected Position Error or EPE. In other words the orientation will update itself approximately twice as fast when walking at 3 mph than when walking at 1.5. It will update faster on an open field than in thick foliage. I do not know about your Garmin III, but the three plus will update the orientation while traveling at 0.5 mph, but it takes a long time.
25. ## Please recommend good caches between Baltimore and Hershey

Mr. DisQuoi, I believe you should define what you want in an excellent cache. In a previous forum I defined a good cache as follows: 1. It must be a physically demanding hike. Absolute minimum is one hour getting in, one hour getting out on a trail with elevation changes. In general, the harder, the better. This does not include time in area looking under rocks or in tree stumps for the actual cache. (Roads are not trails.) 2. A beautiful and/or interesting final location. 3. Environmental interest. First this means quantity of animal life to view and lack of quantity of human life to view. Plant life, water, and geology are included. 4. Ability to make the in/out process a loop hike. I like to return on a different trail than the one I came in on. 5. I would prefer the cache to be in a place that I have never been to a place that I have been. To change this from a good cache to an excellent cache I would change first, and most important item, to “Absolute minimum is two hours getting in, two hours getting out.” You and I have a different definition of an excellent cache since you only budget three hours for the excellent cache. Like with real estate, the three most important things for a cache are location, Location, and LOCATION.
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