gallet

I like decimal degrees as the decimal places roughly equal metres. So the second decimal place roughly equals kilometres. Also one is less likely to make errors when inputting manually.

but the antenna on their current magellan line is a patch antenna! Great for the open prairie, but not good under cover. I don't understand what the problem is with a patch antenna, the VistaHCx has a patch antenna and it gets at least as good receptions as the quad helix 60CSx and in every type of test I've seen it gets better reception. If I can get a fix inside my house (VistaHCx) with a tin roof and no nearby windows I don't see how a patch antenna is a problem.

The Yellow eTrex will work for geocaching in that you can load cache locations in either by cable or manually, and it will then take you to the cache, but it does not do any advanced managment of the caches. I would never recommend the Yellow (or camo or summit) because...well I explain it here in post #6

A few people have reported this problem independently so it probably is an issue, but surely it is a firmware fix. It does not seem reasonable to suspect that the H lost satellite reception while the non H didn't.

@='dontpanic0' ...but csx has bigger screen... Tiny bit bigger but not better resolution. Also screen is not as bright, many complaints about viewing in bright sunlight. And less battery life.

When I got my hcx I was amazed how it just seemed to keep going, like 4 days. As opposed to my old monochrome vista that never saw out a day. I did a continuous on test with the compass on full time with some 2700 NiMH batteries, and it went for the full 25 hours with a bit of backlighting thrown in. The battery indicator remained on 4 bars up until a few hours before it ran out. When it had 2 bars on it, if I changed the unit to read 'alkaline' then it would power off, but still worked for a couple of hours if it was left on 'NiMH'. I thought that this only affected the display but it must detect voltage and shut off. I have heard that the big voltage (1.7) on lithiums can cause a problem, does anyone have any more info on this?

Interesting comparisons. It's worth pointing out that although the 60 screen is slightly larger this is due to slightly larger pixels, not more pixels. Which is like (although exaggerated) comparing a 24" television with a 17" computer monitor. The television is bigger but the computer monitor is effectively bigger because it can be viewed much closer. So the 60 screen is larger, but coarser. Just hold the HCx one centimeter closer and it will be the same.

It's a personal pet peeve of mine that the models without a 'click stick' (or 'rocker' as Garmin now call it), have a manual waypoint input method that makes it virtually useless. This is the Yellow eTrex and Camo and Summit (monochrome). While I acknowledge that waypoints can be uploaded via a computer, I think that the first thing anyone realises when they have a new gps is that it's really useful while in the field to mark waypoints, there are so many reasons for doing this, it is absolutely fundamental to mark waypoints in the field. The models without the pick stick have low resolution screen which only allows 6 spaces to name 500 waypoints! But much worse than only having 6 spaces is the actual method of inputting, one letter at a time by scrolling down an alpha/numeric list using the up/down buttons on the side. It's enough to drive anyone around the twist. Just entering a simple name like "DOCK" requires 90 button presses! And the side buttons, covered as they are with rubber, are not easy to press or hold down. When I called the Venture a non mapping, I erroneously was referring to the monochrome Venture, which I recommend as the real 'basic' eTrex rather than the yellow one. In fact I think Garmin should discontinue the Yellow basic eTrex altogether and replace it with the Venture as the base model. The current monochrome Summit should also be discontinued and the monochrome Venture should have the compass and altimeter and become the new monochrome Summit. Basically I'm saying do away with the non pick stick units completely. </rant>

1. Is the built in altimeter being used when a good GPS signal is being received? In the altimeter set up page you can set it for auto calibration in which case it uses gps to calibrate. If it's not on auto then I guess it will stay calibrated to however it was last. In which case it will change according to the barometric pressure. 2. Can the internal altimeter be disabled so that only the GPS signal is received? "Auto" will cause it to use gps. 3. When is the internal compass being used on the compass page and when is the GPS signal being used? You can decide that yourself in the compass set up page. The default is that under 16kph it uses the electronic compass when stationary for 90 seconds. Set it to what you like. 4. The most frustrating problem I have is when using the compass page while walking the red direction pointer just spins and is almost useless? Remember the red pointer is not a compass it points to the cache, if you are within the error circle it will point anywhere. The compass is the outer ring. While driving it works perfectly. Can the direction arrow be fixed so that it doesn't spin and gives a accurate direction? This is because you are travelling over the default speed setting. (which you can change). You should check out the instruction manual and check out all the options on all the menu pages too.

@'hogrod' No, that's the one where it stays straight but moves sideways (off centre). I can't work out how I can set it up so that when I'm following my own made route (not mapsource) I get a message telling me which way I'm going to turn at the next point. I don't much care for those 'southwest' type messages just a simple right arrow or right turn. I've checked all the data fields and I tried the "Turn" thing but that just provides a bearing arrow.

I hope we're on the same page here I'm only talking about home made routes, not mapsource routes. I mean when you connect a series of waypoints and then navigate your own route, I found that the old Arrow 'bent' as I was approaching a turn. In fact it also did this on a tracback too. Perhaps I need to muck around with this a bit more...

My old vista used to indicate an upcoming turn with a manual route by a bent arrow but my new hcx doesn't do that. I wonder why this useful visual aid was removed. It seems a step backwards.

Whatever you get make sure it has a high sensitivity receiver. That means if it's an eTrex it will have an "H" in the model name. For the small extra cost I'd get the VistaHCx over the LegendHCx.

Too little and I may have to upgrade soon. But I don't want a lot of bells and whistles I'll never use. It doesn't work like that. Some of the most useful features come bundled with others you may not think you want. For example you may not want an removable memory card but the models with a removable card have better battery life which you will want. Also note that colour models are more efficient than the monochromes. So the HCX is the newest technology? As far the the eTrex range goes the 'newest' technology is indicated by the H that will work even under tree cover or canyons. You will want that. What's the difference between the Vista and the Legend? The Vista has an electronic compass. Which means the pointer will point to the cache when you are moving slowly or are stationary. The basic model Yellow eTrex has a method of inputting names for waypoints that is almost unusably frustrating.

@'Klatch That's fair enough. But this thread bothered me a bit. http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=172131

I loaded the basemap for Australia onto my VistaHCx from the Mapsource Worldmap and it's pretty shoddy and inaccurate. My guess is that the basemaps Garmin loads are just teasers to get you to spend up on their proper maps.

I think you should give some consideration to the Vista HCx if you are thinking 60CSx. Main advantages of VistaHCx •More compact •Much brighter screen •Much better battery life •Slightly better chip than the SirfStarIII (but not by much) •Lighter and less mass makes it less prone to mass induce problems like vibrations when mounted on a bike. Cheaper. $220 Main advantages of 60CSx Buttons on the front but this is more a preference than an advanage as such. Can take an external antenna, but who really uses that. Serial port, but again if you don't need it then it's not an advantage.

@ scaber I've been dealing with someone a bit higher up and I do feel confident that the next redesign will be good. Maybe you should write back to Katrina to tell her to hold off for eTrex shield v1.2 However a week ago I wrote to Boxwave as recommended earlier in this thread, and I put in a submission that they make an eTrex C (that's what it should really be called because all the colour versions use the same size screen) and I got a response back today asking for a hi res scan. I'm sending them the scan with a tape measure on it PLUS the file in photoshop with the path properly drawn with .5mm all the way around (which is good enough IF it's accurate) plus an illustrator pdf file of the path only. I'll also link them to this thread. They said they'll send me out a free boxwave shield and I'll check it out and do a review on it when it arrives. I must say that I'm pretty happy with the shieldzone shield but if boxwave are going to make one too then it's only fair to check it out. They might each have different qualities that appeal to different people. The boxwave appears to come in two types, crystal clear and anti glare. Maybe it won't have the orange peel effect of the Shieldzone, but that does not bother me at all as it is invisible in normal viewing conditions. But others might disagree and it's good to have a choice. Stay tuned.

it's worse in Australia, the VistaCx is 320 euros here and we won't be seeing the VistaHCx for a few more months, while they sell the old crap stock. Pretty sad really. Fortunately the Australian government allow us to import $1000 worth of stuff without paying duty.

That was my only hesitation about Vista, that it includes a compass that cannot be turned off (according to reports here), and that apparently is enough of a power hog to be a concern. Let's be real clear here. Old eTrex compasses (or is it compii?) may very well have been power hogs. My old Vista (b/w model) only got about 10 hours out of a pair of 2700 NiMH batteries. My new VistaHCx gets the full quoted 25 hours with the compass on full time. From reports I've read the compass only puts about 5% drain on the batteries and my results would confirm this. Use babelfish.com to translate this The compass on the eTrex Vista HCx (like the old Vista) can be turned off easily with a button on the front. Not only that but even if it is on it will automatically switch off and use gps compass when you are over a certain speed for a certain time. I6kph and 90 seconds is the default but you can set it to any value you like. How cool is that. That's why no one should get the Legend instead of the Vista, unless $30 is going to leave your kids without pocket money for a month, and even then tell them they have to make sacrifices for the greater good of the family. As I'm on a Mac I haven't used mapsource on my computer so I don't know how the information translates. More discussion here

It doesn't matter how accurate you are if the person who made the original projection did not use the same level of accuracy, surely?

@'hwyhobo' Sorry, that's what I meant. I used wrong terminology. OK then you need the Vista, if you want the full baro altimeter window, and don't forget the Vista includes a flux gate compass which is very useful to have as then the cache pointer will point at the cache when you are moving slowly or stopped, otherwise it points at the bearing which confused a lot of people. Still take a back up compass with your normal paper topos. How serious are such jumps? Could you correct (smooth out) those variations later in software? Could you draw such an altitude plot later in your mapping software (say, NG Topo) based on the gps position of your track? Even if you could do it, why would you want to for $30? The readout you get on the vista can be adjusted for scale either by distance traveled or time elapsed plus you can put a pointer at any spot on the elevation data and see what time you were there. In my opinion Garmin have priced the Vista HCx at the maximum price (for the USofA) that they could and then made everything else cheaper, so in effect Legend buyers are subsidising the Altimeter and Compass on the Vista. I mean 30 bucks, that's peanuts, and it adds to the resale value too. Even if you don't use the altimeter plot, it's really fun to play with and isn't that why we all do this stuff? As we say in Australia, "you're a long time dead".

@SergZak Yeah, it's pretty crazy I must admit, you don't even need to do a trace you can just measure it, the one I received was 44mm wide at the widest point and it needs to be less than 43mm, 42mm would be the safest. I drew one up from a hi res scan in Illustrator to really precise measurements but they chose not to use it. Go figger. I trimmed the sides off in a straight line and that seems fine. Try 1 millimeter off each side. No point in trying to trim a curved line it's not possible. Read my advice on trimming (earlier post). You _will_not_be_able to trim it with a knife, it's too rubbery. It needs a really clean edge or it looks crap and you are back to square one. TIP on installing: After removing the old screen and cleaning with a lint free cloth you can use the sticky side of the old screen to pick up any stray dust particles or hairs on the screen and around the edges. Spray your fingers first, then the shield before peeling, then peel the new shield off, spray it, and slap it straight on. Without overlap it's a breeze. If you don't get it right first go then it will never look it's best.

LATEST RESPONSE OK, Sheildzone are as embarrassed by this latest error as I am by making such a fuss about it. However it's going back to the drawing board and a millimeter is coming off each side. I feel that it will be fine. They are sending me another one when it's done even though I said I was happy with my trimmed down one. So that's pretty nice of them. I'll have a chance to measure it and check it properly. So the latest advice is hold on till it is confirmed as good, should take another week I suppose. But it will all be worth it because when it's a millimeter short around the edges you can't see the edges at all it looks really good and it goes on well without any of this moving it around business.

I don't know anything about magellan or but if you like Garmin then forget about their older stuff because the new H series are awesome. Regarding your comments about b/w. You may not mind b/w but don't necessarily assume things about it. For instance it's easy to assume that b/w will have better battery life and battery life is an important consideration. The new colour models have better battery life with colour screens and electronic compasses than the older plain jane b/w models! Don't be fooled by the ever so slightly larger screen on the map60 series compared to the etrex because the amount of pixel resolution is the same so you don't get any more clarity you just need to hold the eTrex about 1" closer and it is the same. But there have been complaints about the lack of brightness on the 60 screens compared to the eTrex's. And not only is the screen not as bright but the 60's use more battery power. What I'm saying is that Garmin really makes it confusing by mixing and matching features. You may not want expandable memory but you should get it anyway if only because those units have better battery life. In short if you like Garmin then you should select the eTrex VistaHCx as the benchmark and compare any other ones you are thinking about to that. Above all don't discount a unit because it has a feature you don't need as it will usually be bundled with a feature that is very desireable. With regards to which maps are better I'll leave that up to others. $0.02