Tschakko

What do they care about their talks from yesterday? They are huge! They are famous! They do not need to care about customers thoughts and feelings! They do not need customers! It's already been stated in this thread that the promise will be honored, so please stop suggesting otherwise. Thanks. Where exactly has this been written? I did not read a word about it. All they say is that they will charge 30,-€ including "VAT" and period! If it were just VAT and a correct calculated one I wouldn´t be discussing here.

What do they care about their talks from yesterday? They are huge! They are famous! They do not need to care about customers thoughts and feelings! They do not need customers!

I guess I have got an answer to my previous question: Discrimination of Europeans? "YES, WE CAN!" Reasons: - They have the LIBERTY to do so - They are more EQUAL than others edited for misspellings

No, because that's not the way sales tax generally works in the US. We have to charge sales tax on any memberships sold to Washington State residents only. On top of that is any applicable county sales tax. In Seattle, where Groundspeak resides, an annual premium membership runs $32.84. So why can´t you just do the same to Europeans with the VAT level that applies?

I am not sure if you can find out when it has been issued. But the VAT officials can look into it and also see if there have been payments to them ever since 2003.

I am sorry, I shall do so. Even though Groundspeak is lacking the respect to European cachers just as we speak. edited for misspelling...

Hopefully... Well, did not you say you already did so ever since 2003 and gifted the VAT to us? Where is there a problem to just say "29.99$ plus VAT"? Does not that seem easy enough? I do not want this risk taken from me! Give us the choice to pay in Dollars or Euros or whatever currency is applicable. Furthermore you are charging some countries with € that do not even have the €. So this argument is sort of more than lame! If a higher price is reasonable never has been the question! That you guys just put this price on Europeans has been in question and still is! Sorry, but all this is nothing more than excuses, because there is no convincing reason behind it.

As we see we see nothing. They have chosen to go this way and they will do so till the very end. Sorry to say, but there is no learning curve at all. Further more these official words are a piece of c... and just the same as before in nicer words. Furthermore: Still no answer to the question: Is there already a US State or Federal VAT included in the original 29.99$? I am pretty sure officials here will be curious to learn, that German citizens are paying UK VAT. This is not the way the VAT of a German was supposed to go!

We have a similar kind of "regionalism" in Germany. For example I would never ever want to be called a Bavarian. Also many Bavarians consider themselves a country in no need of the rest of Germany. I guess there is a similar issue in Spain with Barcelona and the Catalan region. For my part y know the term "country" equal to "sovereign state". And all the different regions (I use it as defined above) of the UK as well as Germany or Spain as they might have been sovereign at one point in history, they are not now. Who knows. One day we might not even be able to call UK, Germany or Spain a "country" anymore. This would be the case if the EU becomes a sovereign state and therfore a country itself. Although if it keeps going as it is I do have doubts that´s ever gonna happen.

I guess there is only a few that will do so. The thing about this number is, that people just ain´t buying the VAT-excuse. This number would be a kind of proof that there is some truth to it.

I guess the governments of the US and the european Countries would be working this out together. I am quite sure, the US will enforce the EU VAT on their companies as would the EU do on theirs with US charges.

I am still waiting on the answers from yesterdays meeting here... It´s just so easy to decide what would be the right thing to do. 1. Set a basic price before VAT equal for everyone (EU, US, Timbuctu, etc.) IMPORTANT: make it sufficient so you can cover your costs and even earn some money with it too. 2. Charge everyone the proper VAT that´s applying for them individually 3. Give the customer the choice to be charged in $ or local currencies 4. Communicate it in a nice, open and honest way After these easy to accomplish steps everything will be fine

By the way: Isn't there already the Washington State VAT included in the original 29.99$?

No, it's you guys in Europe who have the brains & the money! The USA is just coming out of the worst financial crisis in 80 years! Well get the news: Europe still is in this crisis with zyprus just being the latest desaster! I don't know who told you everybody here has got money??? And as stated before: If there was to be an incomelevel related Membership, let it be. But say so and make it reasonable! Edited to correct some misspellings... There may be more though

I'm sorry to say, but that is exactly the case. We have been working with the EU to come into compliance and this change reflects that effort. You are definitely correct, however, that this could have been communicated much better, and for that we are sorry. The team is discussing ways to do better as I type this. Well, I still have my doubts. If you decided to cover VAT, then just cover the VAT, not more than that. We can pay in Dollars easily, the exchangerate then is a problem of us not you. The price then would be: 29.99$ minus the Washington State VAT (6.5 or 9.5%) plus VAT of the country the customer lives in (Germany 19% for example). This does not amount anywhere close to 29.99 Euros. I am curious on the official statements...

It´s not about a higher price... It´s about the lame excuses which just are not more than excuses. They had to pay the VAT the last 10 years to the governments too, so this is not the reason. It´s a company, nothing more, you can´t tell me they gifted the VAT to us for 10 years. If the VAT were the issue it would have been back in 2003 when the law went in place, not now... We're not in a position to speculate about Groundspeak's tax affairs, being as they are a private company, but your post above from the European Commission's website does clearly state that VAT is liable, so why is VAT not the issue again? You did miss off the last sentence of my quote I added later, where I did add that I agreed the communication could have been better. Poorly handled yes, excuse no. I say it´s an excuse and does not count because this tax has to be paid by Groundspeak to the EU ever since 2003. As you said it´s a private company. If VAT would have been an issue they would have dealt with it in 2003. No company does wait 10 years. The VAT had been inclueded all these years and it certainly did not rise just recently. Furthermore I already said, that if it were for VAT reasons it would not have been 10 Dollars more. It would have been just about 5 Dollars. There is no European country that has a VAT of 33%.

It´s not about a higher price... It´s about the lame excuses which just are not more than excuses. They had to pay the VAT the last 10 years to the governments too, so this is not the reason. It´s a company, nothing more, you can´t tell me they gifted the VAT to us for 10 years. If the VAT were the issue it would have been back in 2003 when the law went in place, not now...

This makes the VAT argument even more unbelievable... If Groundspeak wants to earn more money, then communicate it properly and charge everybody equal! Everything I heard so fare are just lame excuses! Premium in Europa teurer als USA! - Will man uns für doof verkaufen? Preiserhöhung um 23% bzw. 7 EUR nur für Europäer! (auch wenn ich nicht glaube, dass da einer reinschaut...) If you convert it to Dollars it´s an increase of 33%

This makes the VAT argument even more unbelievable... If Groundspeak wants to earn more money, then communicate it properly and charge everybody equal! Everything I heard so fare are just lame excuses!

The ones interested in the taxtation rules: Taxation and Customs Union

This would be a system that would be ok, but then it should be based on incomelevels... And US and Canada are definetely no countries that would need such a discount... I would give the discount to some countries in Africa or Asia or South America... There is even some European countries which would deserve this. I think of Romania for example or Greece... The communication on this is just lacking... It does not all fit together...

This just is not true, I am sorry to say this... And as I stated before: Even if it were to be true, it does not amount to a 33% higher price than in the US. Ok, I have done some research... As it seems there is a taxation on these services, even though they are not based in the EU. But this is already in place ever since 2003. Furthermore the quote differs between 15 and 25% depending on the country the customer lives in. Still: This does not amount up to the 33% that Europeans have to pay right now. Furthermore, it shows the price og 30$ on the website until u decide to purchase, then it changes to € which is quite a bit of money more than 30$. I stay with my opinion, that it just does not seem right as it is right now... The tax was not a problem all theses years... Why now, and why does no one say a word before doing the changes...

This just is not true, I am sorry to say this... And as I stated before: Even if it were to be true, it does not amount to a 33% higher price than in the US.

Just to make a long story short: Could you please name as the EU VAT registration number of Groundspeak if there is one. Or the VAT registration number of the European country that Groundspeak is based in? Thank you very much.

Did I miss something? Why is a US based company charging VAT unless they have a presence in Europe? That´s what I am saying too... It´s just rediculous... There is no sane explanation for this inequality... Just keep charging dollars as before and keep the price the same for everyone! Moun10bike is a Groundspeak lackey. I think it's safe to say that his post is Groundspeak's position, and not just some random cacher's explanation. If you have follow up questions based on his post, it might make more sense to follow up with his post rather than discarding it as "rediculous [sic]." I am sorry, but it is rediculous! As I stated as a response on that thread (which you might read above), even if they where charging German VAT this would not add up to an additional 10 Dollars. Just for your information: VAT i Germany is 19% which would be a bit more that 5 Dollars. If they take European VAT as for example ebay does take on their fees, this would be 15% which would be even less than in Germany itself. As you can see the argument of VAT being added is not true, even if Groundspeak had a European company.