greenworldfeather

That is true, unless you have something like a lot of bad weather coming on soon. Or you are ordering something over the internet, and you are just waiting for it to come in the mail. However, there are two simple alternatives. A. You can tell the reviewer not o publish it yet, or B. You can just disable it untyil it gets in place, which is hopefully very soon. However A is usually preferred. Thanks for reading this and have a great day. gwf

I don't mind people correcting assumptions about Joseph Smith on the article's comments page, but let's keep the discussion here about geocaching please. I know, but that was a very offensive thing the writer said about Joseph Smith. What would you do if someone came and made a very offensive remark about someone like the founding fathers, especially in the newspaper where they were also putting it in the same category as other "stupid" or "waste of time" stuff. I am only putting my feelings in here as it struck me. If you feel differently, that is your choice. Think about it for a minute or two, and then respond if you want to. Anyways, let's get back to the topic on hand. If there is something you would like to say about this, please do so, but in an appropriate manner. Thank you. Have a great day. gwf P.S. I did read the rest of what you said, and do agree very much with what you said. Thank you for your comment on the matter. We hope to hear more of what you have to say, about things like this. That was a good comment though. Anyway, thanks.

I don't mind people correcting assumptions about Joseph Smith on the article's comments page, but let's keep the discussion here about geocaching please. I know, but that was a very offensive thing the writer said about Joseph Smith. What would you do if someone came and made a very offensive remark about someone like the founding fathers, especially in the newspaper where they were also putting it in the same category as other "stupid" or "waste of time" stuff. I am only putting my feelings in here as it struck me. If you feel differently, that is your choice. Think about it for a minute or two, and then respond if you want to. Anyways, let's get back to the topic on hand. If there is something you would like to say about this, please do so, but in an appropriate manner. Thank you. Have a great day. gwf

Now here I have to comment. I am planning on doing a very hard cache for a very good cacher for their 10,000th cache. I do stand by what you just said. However, consider this, and then see what you think after a little bit of thought on the matter and we can see where we stand with this. If I were to write the description in something like an indian language or something like that, it would be required to list it as an unknown/mystery cache. However, I think cachers need to take into consideration actually looking at the diff. and ter. ratings. If they did that, they might see why it might be rated that high. The one I am doing is going to be a very difficult cache. Then again, it is for their 10,000th cache. If I were to put it saying that the coord's were totally bogus, and were to get them to have to solve the language that it is in, then somehow I think if I were to follow the rules set by Groundspeak, then I would be fine and not be ridiculed. If I am missing something here, then please forgive me. I am only trying to make some things here a little clearer. If there is a problem, then it will be taken care of later. But as far as I can see, if you do it like that somehow, then I think you would be justified in doing something like that without much argument. Just remember to follow the rules et by Groundspeak. That way, we can always have a grewat time with our sport, without much fighting about them. Thank you. Anyway, thanks. Have a great day. gwf

edit to add a link. article linkage. Check out this one too, from the same article. Makes me want to actually slap the people that put this part in there. Not hard, but still, not too gently. Before he discovered Mormonism, Joseph Smith was a “money digger” who trusted that a stone in a hat, properly viewed, could lead him to buried treasure; when the stone pointed the way to a hill in New York that contained the Book of Mormon, he hit the mother lode. Bullcrap. I'm mormon, and if any of those people bothered to actually take more of a look into mormonism, they would find out quite the contrary. To get more of anidea about it, if you've wondered about it, check out mormon.org. Or just type in LDS into your google search browser. Thank you, and have a great day. gwf Edited for explanation of where I got this from.

My mom said, "It's cute" when she saw the toad. Of course I would imagine if she saw the spider pic up by the top of the first page, she would have said that too. Thanks. Have a great day. gwf

I could join up with you man. You really need to consider it. Seriously. Just take look at my profile...

I get some of mine from there too. That's where I get some of my creative containers from. Amazingly, I haven't used any of them yet, but that is partially due to the fact that I am waiting for it to warm up a bit. The others, well, sometimes I make other ones. Anyways if you want some creative and crazy caches, visit that site, and see what you think. Thanks, and have a great day. gwf P.S. The cache in the photo right now is one of my own caches that I have made. If the photo that is howing is the wrong one, then go to my gallery on my profile. Thanks.

We have two series like that in utah here. The CLOO Game series(there are also a few in other states by that user too), and the ring series inwhich there are five groups. Each group has 3-5 caches in it. Each one has a number in it that you have to use for solving the location to the such and such "Master" cache for that category. Each category leader has a number in too. They point to the "One ring to rule them all-Master cache". As for the cache question, I would guess that it would qualify as a puzzle/multi because you have several different location that you have to visit, and you are using a GPS for at least one of them. Anyway, thanks, and I hope that you get this figured out so that you can do the cache (series?) you want to do. Anyway, thanks and have agreat day. gwf

What i would do is out a lock on it, and make people figure out a code to get to it. Or, do it the more simple way, and install a video camera near the cache. Or, at the very least, make it look real but make sure that is not actually recording if neccesary. I hope that you have much help in this, and that the problem is stopped soon. Thanks, and have a great day. gwf

My first FTF was on a cache by JeeperDad. He has done a lot of great caches in utah. The first stage was by a school. the second stage was on a hill that you approached by going up a road by a cemetery that went up and around the cemetery. When I say up and around, I mean that. The parto f the city was in the bottom fothills of a mountain. The road went around the cemetery to a parking lot. It then went around on the hill above the cemetery, and up. I t would have been easier except that I went at 7 p.m. in winter on a hill covered by 1-1 1/2 feet of snow. Add to that it was one of THE first times I had been up on that mountain. We got more snow this winter, which was the one I got my first FTF in, than the last five or more years' winters before. I went up the hill trying to stay on the path and went up the mountain. Oh, and I had shoes on, not boots. I got to the cache, which luckily was an ammo can under a bush. I got down the hill and got home safely without being attacked by a wild animal. I was scared I would be almost the entire time I was there. I got home and didn't catch a cold, luckily. I found a log the next day and found out that I had beaten someone who is a bit of a FTF hog. I have gotten three FTF since. All on my bike and on my feet. Thanks, and have a great day. gwf P.S. Every time I see or think about the name of this thread, I laugh.

I thought it was the brown thing(a rock?) on the asphalt by the car.

Well, you WILL need to have a cache container, but.... you could make the cache an ALR (additional logging requirement) cache, and list the cache as a "?" cache (the ALR category) and the ALR could be that in addition to signing the logbook, the finder must also submit a foto of themselves from the webcam. As far as I have been able to find out tthe only types that do not have to have a physical log book at the site are earthcaches, virtuals, and webcams. Thank, I hope this helps and have a great day! gwf

LMAO!!! When I saw the title of this thread I just KNEW that it would have a post like this one in it. What a putz. Next they'll say, "if the rules (they are actually GUIDELINES) state that you can't use a shovel, then obviously you can't PAINT that ammo can". I suppose that the log that I cut up from MY OWN PROPERTY and took out to the site where I placed my cache is illegal because I used a Chainsaw, Drill, and Chisels to shape a cavity in it for the cache container to fit into? Does it matter if I DRILL into a log or a rock in building a cache? Did you know that they use a DRILL when manufacturing aluminum bison tubes? We better ban those too. No DRILLING into stuff folks, cause that's that same as using a shovel! [/soapbox] Yes, although I did spot somewhere on a forum thread from a reviewer, it did say that reviewers do make exceptions. They are not perfect, although they do try to do a good job. It is expected that in a chosen year there are going to be too many caches that are too close to railroad tracks, or too many caches that are on church property, or thrown into bushes, or are in cemetaries, etc. The job of the reviewer is not to police everyones mistakes with caching, it is merely to make sure that the problem does not get out of hand. It is up to cache owner and their fellow cachers to report any problems that occur. Now that does not mean that you can't go drill a rock or something. Here is what it says concerning this: Cache Listing Requirements / Guidelines Guidelines last updated May 7, 2008. These are listing guidelines only. Before a cache is published on the website, a volunteer will review the page for inaccuracies, bad coordinates, and compliance with these guidelines. The physical cache site is not verified. As the cache owner, you are responsible for the placement and care of your cache. Prior to placing and submitting a cache you are expected to review the following guidelines. In order to post a new cache and submit it for review you must indicate that you have read the guidelines as required. Geocaching is a constantly changing and evolving sport, and as a result these guidelines are subject to change as the sport progresses. Please refer back to these guidelines prior to cache placement to ensure that no changes have been implemented that would adversely affect your planned cache placement. First and foremost please be advised there is no precedent for placing caches. This means that the past listing of a similar cache in and of itself is not a valid justification for the listing of a new cache. If a cache has been published and violates any guidelines listed below, you are encouraged to report it. However, if the cache was placed prior to the date when a guideline was issued or updated the cache is likely to be "grandfathered" and allowed to stand as is. If you believe that your cache may be questionable, you are encouraged to add a note to the cache page. For example, you could add an explanation in the "notes to reviewer" section such as: "The train tracks running through this park are inactive and have been converted to a rails-to-trails path." The reviewer will read the note and take the information into consideration. Rest assured that notes to reviewers will be removed before the caches are published. Most caches that are temporarily put on hold or archived are done so due to a lack of information. Having all the relevant information up front during the review process will help ensure a speedy listing. If your cache has been placed on hold, temporarily disabled or archived... First please read the reviewer notes for an explanation. It is a common practice for the reviewers to place a cache on hold while they obtain additional details required for it to be published. A reviewer may temporarily disable a submission to provide time for the cache owner to make necessary changes to the cache placement or cache description. This doesn’t necessarily mean that it won’t be published. In order to ensure a prompt response when responding to a reviewer, please follow the contact instructions given by the reviewer in their note. If no other instructions are provided, click on the volunteer reviewer’s profile from the cache page and e-mail the reviewer through Geocaching.com. If you reply directly to the automated cache notification address, most likely you will not receive a reply. Exceptions may sometimes be made, depending on the nature of a cache. If you have a novel type of cache that "pushes the envelope" to some degree, then it is best to contact your local reviewer and/or Groundspeak before placing and reporting it on the Geocaching.com web site. The guidelines should address most situations, but Groundspeak administrators and reviewers are always interested in new ideas. If, after exchanging emails with the reviewer, you still feel your cache has been misjudged, your next option is to ask the volunteer to post the cache for all of the reviewers to see in their private discussion forum. Sometimes a second opinion from someone else who has seen a similar situation can help in suggesting a way for the cache to be published. Next, you should feel free to post a message in the "Geocaching Topics" section of the Groundspeak Forums to see what the geocaching community thinks. If the majority believes that it should be published, then Groundspeak administrators and volunteers may review the submission and your cache may be published(or unarchived). By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location. However, if we see a cache description that mentions ignoring "No Trespassing" signs (or any other obvious issues), your listing may be immediately archived. We also assume that your cache placement complies with all applicable laws. If an obvious legal issue is present, or is brought to our attention, your listing may be immediately archived. Caches may be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not exhaustive): Caches on land managed by an agency that prohibits geocaches, such as the U.S. National Park Service or U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (National Wildlife Refuges). Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate. Caches that deface public or private property, whether a natural or man-made object, in order to provide a hiding place, a clue or a logging method. Caches placed in areas which are highly sensitive to the extra traffic that would be caused by vehicles and humans (examples may include archaeological or historic sites). Caches hidden in close proximity to active railroad tracks. In general we use a distance of 150 ft (46 m) but your local area’s trespassing laws may be different. All local laws apply. Caches near or on military installations. Caches near, on or under public structures deemed potential or possible targets for terrorist attacks. These may include but are not limited to highway bridges, dams, government buildings, elementary and secondary schools, and airports. There may be some exceptions. If your cache fits within one of the above areas, please explain this in a note to the reviewer. If you are given permission to place a cache on private property, indicate this on the cache page for the benefit of both the reviewer and people seeking out the cache. In addition, there may be local regulations already in place for certain types of parks in your region (state parks, county preserves, etc.). There are many local caching organizations that would be able to help you out with those regulations. If your area does not have a local caching organization please contact your local reviewer for information on regulations. If you have complied with special regulations by obtaining a permit, please state this on your cache page or in a 'note to the reviewer'. A reviewer may request that you provide contact information for the person who gave you permission to hide your cache. If the Geocaching.com web site is contacted and informed that your cache has been placed inappropriately, your cache may be archived or disabled and you may be contacted with any information provided by the individual or organization who contacted us. (But that is up to the REVIEWERS AND ADMINASTRATORS, not the cachers(except for the current owner themselves) to decide.) Notice it says it may be disabled or archived, not it will. Exceptions are made sometimes. Guidelines that Apply to all Cache Types For all physical caches and waypoints, think carefully about how your container and the actions of geocachers will be perceived by the public. For example, a cache hidden in full view of office or apartment building windows exposes a geocacher to being seen by someone who may think the cache search looks suspicious. Your cache may be hidden on public property, but there may be concerned residents on the other side of that property line. And, while an ammo box or PVC pipe may be a great container if hidden deep in the woods, it may cause alarm if discovered in an urban setting. A clear plastic container or a microcache may be a better choice. In busy areas, avoid containers that look suspicious, including attachment materials like wires or tape. To reduce confusion and alarm when a cache is discovered accidentally, clearly label your container on the outside with appropriate information to say it is a geocache. Cover over any military markings with paint or a geocache sticker. Include an explanatory "stash note" inside your cache. Common sense in selecting hiding spots and containers can reduce the risk of your cache being perceived as a danger to those who are unaware of our sport. You as the owner of the cache must visit the site and obtain the coordinates with a GPS. GPS usage is an essential element of geocaching. Therefore, although it is possible to find a cache without a GPS, the option of using accurate GPS coordinates as an integral part of the cache hunt must be demonstrated for all physical cache submissions. For all physical caches, there must be a logbook, scroll or other type of log for geocachers to record their visit. For all caches that include multiple waypoints please report all the additional coordinates using the "Additional Waypoints" feature. If you don't want a set of coordinates displayed on your cache page, be sure to mark them as "hidden". Doing this will hide the coordinates from view by anyone except the owner and website volunteers. In the interest of file security, caches that require the downloading, installing or running of data and/or executables may not be published. Caches that require a geocacher to visit another website will not be published if the finder must create an account with, or provide personal information to, the other website. If you are placing a large number of caches to be published on the same date (for example, on the day of an event cache), please submit the cache pages for all of the caches at least ten days in advance of the release date. Leave a "note to reviewer" indicating that the cache is to be released on the date specified. This allows your reviewer adequate time to review the submissions or to arrange for help from another reviewer. (Note: Caches placed in connection with an event must be placed with the intention of leaving them in place after the event, temporary caches are not accepted.) Your cache should be in place and ready to hunt at the time your cache page is submitted for review. If for any reason it is not ready, please either disable your cache page so that it won’t be seen by the reviewer until ready, or include a "note to reviewer" to explain your special circumstances (for example, waiting for a permit from a land manager). At times a cache may meet the listing requirements for the site but the reviewers, as experienced cachers, may see additional concerns that you as a cache placer may not have noticed. As a courtesy, the reviewer may bring additional concerns about cache placement to your attention and offer suggestions before posting. But as the cache owner you are responsible for placement and care of your cache. Note: Exceptions to the listing guidelines may occasionally be made depending on the novel nature and merits of a cache. If you have a cache idea you believe is novel, contact Groundspeak before placing and reporting it on the Geocaching.com web site. (Nut once again, it ultimately up to the REVIEWERS AND ADMINISTRATORS TO DECIDE if it should be disabled, archived, or if changes should be made to it for some reason.) Here is some other stuff for you read. Cache Maintenance The cache owner will assume all responsibility of their cache listings. The responsibility of your listing includes quality control of posts to the cache page. Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements. As the cache owner, you are also responsible for physically checking your cache periodically, and especially when someone reports a problem with the cache (missing, damaged, wet, etc.). You may temporarily disable your cache to let others know not to hunt for it until you have a chance to fix the problem. This feature is to allow you a reasonable time – normally a few weeks – in which to arrange a visit to your cache. In the event that a cache is not being properly maintained, or has been temporarily disabled for an extended period of time, we may archive or transfer the listing. It may be difficult to fulfill your maintenance obligations if you place a cache while traveling on vacation or otherwise outside of your normal caching area. These caches may not be published unless you are able to demonstrate an acceptable maintenance plan. It is not uncommon for caches to go missing, areas to be cleared, trails to be blocked or closed, objects used for multi-cache or puzzles to be moved or removed, etc. Your maintenance plan must allow for a quick response to reported problems. The territory in which a geocacher is able to maintain caches responsibly will vary from one person to the next. An active geocacher who regularly visits areas hundreds of miles apart can demonstrate their ability to maintain a cache 100 miles from home. A geocacher whose previous finds and hides are all within 25 miles of their home would likely not see their cache published if placed 250 miles away from their home. If you have special circumstances, please describe your maintenance plan on your cache page. For example, if you have made arrangements with a local geocacher to watch over your distant cache for you, that geocacher’s name should be mentioned on your cache page. Cache Permanence When you report a cache on the Geocaching.com web site, geocachers should (and will) expect the cache to be there for a realistic and extended period of time. Therefore, caches that have the goal to move ("traveling caches"), or temporary caches (caches hidden for less than 3 months or for events) most likely will not be published. If you wish to hide caches for an event, bring printouts to the event and hand them out there. We realize that it is possible that a planned long-term cache occasionally becomes finite because of concerns with the environment, missing or plundered caches, or the owner’s decision to remove the cache for other valid reasons. Please do your best to research fully, hide wisely, and maintain properly for a long cache life. Cache Saturation The reviewers use a rule of thumb that caches placed within .10 miles (528 feet or 161 metres) of another cache may not be published on the site. This is an arbitrary distance and is just a guideline, but the ultimate goal is to reduce the number of caches hidden in a particular area and to reduce confusion that might otherwise result when one cache is found while looking for another. On the same note, don't go cache crazy and hide a cache every 600 feet just because you can. If you want to create a series of caches (sometimes called a "Power Trail"), the reviewer may require you to create a multi-cache, if the waypoints are close together. A series of caches that are generally intended to be found as a group are good candidates for submission as a single multicache. The cache saturation guideline applies to all physical stages of multicaches and mystery/puzzle caches, as well as any other stages entered as "stages of a multicache." The guideline does NOT apply to event caches, earthcaches, grandfathered virtual and webcam caches, stages of multicaches or puzzle caches entered as "question to answer" or "reference point," or to any "bogus" posted coordinates for a puzzle cache. Within a single multicache or mystery/puzzle cache, there is no minimum required distance between waypoints. Cache Contents Use your common sense in most cases. Explosives, fireworks, ammo, lighters, knives (including pocket knives and multi-tools), drugs, alcohol or other illicit material shouldn't be placed in a cache. As always respect the local laws. Geocaching is a family activity and cache contents should be suitable for all ages. Food items are ALWAYS a BAD IDEA. Animals have better noses than humans, and in some cases caches have been chewed through and destroyed because food items (or items that smell like food) are in the cache. Even the presence of mint flavored dental floss has led to destruction of one cache. If the original cache contents list any of the above items or other questionable items, or if a cache is reported to have the questionable items, the cache may be disabled, and the owner of the cache will be contacted and asked to remove the questionable items before the cache is enabled. Caches that Solicit Solicitations are off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda. Commercial Caches Commercial caches will not be published on geocaching.com without prior approval from Groundspeak. A commercial cache is a geocache listing or geocache which is perceived by Groundspeak, Groundspeak's employees, or the Volunteer Geocache Reviewers as having been submitted to geocaching.com with the principal or substantial intent of soliciting customers or generating commercial gain. The geocache is presumed to be commercial if the finder is required to go inside a business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, or if the cache listing has overtones of advertising, marketing, or promotion. Additionally, links to businesses, commercial advertisers, charities, political or social agendas, or the inclusion of their associated logos are not permitted on cache descriptions without prior permission from Groundspeak. Grandfathered Cache Types Cache types that are listed below are no longer available as options for new listings on Geocaching.com. Cache descriptions and maintenance guidelines are listed below. Grandfathered caches that are not maintained may be archived. Not to worry, there is a separate website provided by Groundspeak Inc. dedicated to marking these unique locations. Please visit Waymarking.com for details. I hope that this clears some stuff up. If you wish to drill into something, or dig, I will for one, say, "Go for it!", unless it is something that obviously looks like something associated with bombs, or politics or some leaders we have had. I hope you have fun from now, just be a little more careful, and be safe. Thanks and have a great day. gwf

Yes, I agree with you mostly. I have seen a couple of caches, one is to honor a little kid who was hit by a car when someone on a very busy road was coming downhill and the setting sun was in the drivers' eyes. It also said that people needed to be a little more careful. Another wa to honor a couple war veterans who fought in such and such war. There is one of those in the cemetary and the cache container is glued inside a miniature oxygen mask. The other is just outside the entrance the cemetary. It is in a faek electrical box next to a telephone pole. Some of the caches most people will support, if they are for say the founding fathers, or something like that. I too, have been there. I broke leg on 800 N in orem, utah. Now there is something you have to understand here. There are only a few streets around here that are considered very dangerous to be on. State Street, the freeway, University Parkway, University AVenue(that is actually more in the city called provo just south of orem), and 800 N. Now, 800 North runs east/west in orem. It is so dangerous because it is a road that goes all the way west from past Geneva Road(another very dangerous road in orem west of the freeway which is about 3/4-1.2 miles east of utah lake) all the way east crossing state street and going up into provo canyon and all the way into Heber, about 10 miles away from orem. I got hit by a car in early dec. 2004 when it was rush hour(I was outside the white line, don't worry). I was riding home from a friends' house and I was about 1/8-1/4 mile east of 800 W. I was going downhill towards the intersection. Oh, by the way, I forgot to mention that it was minda dark and it was raining with a little bit of snow. I had stoppe to clean my glasses and a car turned too early into what became the turning lane just a couple hundred feet ahead. I was hit and it ran over my leg. It was an accident though, and I healed quickly. I am now very active, walking, hiking, biking, camping, etc. So now you know what happened. So I do support caches like that, mostly as long as they are littering our neighborhoods like some types of caches are. So anyway, now you have my opinion. Think on this, and reply if you want to. Thanks, and have a great day! gwf

But there are others out there (and I know a few around here that get under my skin) that basically sit on their computer and wait like vultures. Then when one pops up, off they go in a hurry. That was quoted. But seriously, I do think it would be a little more fair if some of the people that get FTF would stay home for a while and just let the other people get once in a while. Especially if the person who usually gets FTF has hundreds of finds on their profile, and 15 or more of them are FTF. The people who want to get just one once in a while have to basically sit at the computer and wait for a cache that they can get FTF on or at least have a chance atwhenever they want to get it. It is very annoying especially when work doesn't allow them at work. But all in all, I am not saying thatr everyone should give FTF to the person with only 20 or so finds. I believe that they should be able to get some, but that they should wait until they have about 50 or more finds so that they know how to cache. Those are my remarks. Think on them please. Hey, thanks and have a great day. gwf

I would venture to say that for every one person who feels the way you do about the easier to find caches there are five out there who disagree. Not everybody can go out and find the harder caches. The camo'd pill bottle in the bush at McDonald's may allow somebody who can't get around easily the chance to still participate. Additionally, it is an easy enough hide that the children can do it. As the mother of a 6yo and 2yo, I am grateful to those who place such caches. My 6 year old can find the harder ones. My 2 year old on the other hand makes EVERYBODY smile when she is able to go look through the bush and find the pill bottle cache. She loves to cache. Being able to find some on her own makes her love it even more! And, a simple solution...if you hate something, don't do it. Yes, I agree with you. Most of the caches I do are either wheelchair/disabled person(s) accesible or I add certainrules to them. *Although this is not wheelchair accessible, I do allow other people to do the cache for wheelchair people and disabled people and still count it as a find for both if both the wheelchair/disabled person(s) and the person(s) doing for them are geocachers. If so, please put both usernames in the log. I like to be fair and find ways to include wheelchair people and disabled people, and I am hoping that by doing this, more people that would not normally be able to find the caches or go on the hikes/trips to go find them may still participate in some way in getting these caches and counting them as a find. I assure you I have felt in some measure, the sadness that you do through personal experience. Now more people can have fun. Thanks and I hope that you like this new way. Please feel free to contact me through my e-mail if you have any questions or comments. If the other person is not a cacher, I would appreciate it if the person who gets the cache for you is the owner of the house or someone that you know and trust not to take or destroy the cache or perform any other form of rude or harsh treatment. Thanks and have a lot more fun from now on, everyone. Thank you. If I am not sure if it is accessible by Wheelchair/disabled person(s) I put that it may or may not be accessible to them. I always try to be fair to people who can't get out and do it themselves for one reason or another. I hope that people will copy/paste this onto their caches that they make in the hopes that we may be able to get more people into the sport who otherwise may not be able to do it. Thanks and have a great day. gwf

Well from what I understand he was not with the hider when the hider placed the Cache the Hider I think simply called him and said hey I just hid a Cache here are the coordinates if you want to get to it before anyone else. Scubasonic I have done something similar I think. A cache of mine was published before i coukd get the container up and running, which was my own fault mostly. I finally got it done but I gave FTF to a caching couple whom I know who had searched for about two hours. I told them it was there and I was saving FTF for them specifically because I felt sorry for them because they had searched for two hours for a container that wasn't there. Then after they found it I enabled the cache again. Is that legal to do stuff like that for cachers occasionally? Anyway, thanks and have a great day. gwf

Now, not to be gross but... aw forget it. We're talking like "men" here, so I'll "have a go" at being manly and "stuff". That I would like told on this thread how you managed to tell them that risky butt overall lucky and blessed sport/pleasure. Then tell us whether you had both genders you had to explain that to. I have a nice yard where since somebody's always hogging the only toilet in the house and feeding it yummy stuff that's not exactly easy to choke on(unless you have the glory of having the hobby of sitting on the john and feeling it come out plop by plop). So I am always reducing the chance of drought by getting rid of the extra liquid that I don't need and watering the lawn and the trees safely hidden from view by my neighbors. In fact, I tend to do that everywhere in the beautiful outdoors provided I can find a place that hides me from view(if I can't find an outhouse first that doesn't eat GPSr's) while at the same time giving forth some of my extra possesions away. I really am thinking about creating a ceramic log with a hole in it and putting it somewhere in the woods. It would have something inscribed into it. Hey thanks for reading this. I hope I didn't "waste" your time. Have a good day and keep up the porta-potty stories. Thanks and have a great day. gwf

Now, not to be gross but... aw forget it. We're talking like "men" here, so I'll "have a go" at being manly and "stuff". That I would like told on this thread how you managed to tell them that risky butt overall lucky and blessed sport/pleasure. Then tell us whether you had both genders you had to explain that to. I have a nice yard where since somebody's always hogging the only toilet in the house and feeding it yummy stuff that's not exactly easy to choke on(unless you have the glory of having the hobby of sitting on the john and feeling it come out plop by plop). So I am always reducing the chance of drought by getting rid of the extra liquid that I don't need and watering the lawn and the trees safely hidden from view by my neighbors. In fact, I tend to do that everywhere in the beautiful outdoors provided I can find a place that hides me from view(if I can't find an outhouse first that doesn't eat GPSr's) while at the same time giving forth some of my extra possesions away. I really am thinking about creating a ceramic log with a hole in it and putting it somewhere in the woods. It would have something inscribed into it. Hey thanks for reading this. I hope I didn't "waste" your time. Have a good day and keep up the porta-potty stories. Thanks and have a great day. gwf

Huh? Thanks. Have a great day. gwf

Well I'll say this.....you've certainly "creatived" me right outta ever trying it. Besides, I suck royal at Rubik's....and have less-than zero inclination to learn how. I'll also note, in your example above you have 8 blanks....and every cube I ever saw has 6 sides. ~* But in case you have forgotten, a regular 3x3x3 rubik's cube has 9 same-colored squares on each side. It is variable depending on which one you have, but I will be using a 3x3x3 rubik's cube. Also, I will probably put in the cache description that they willneed to send me a pic with e cube solved. I will also include a big fat warning to not try to take it apart becvause it might break. Is it legal to say if they break it because they were rough or because they tried to take it apart that they will need to pay for a new one? I will also be putting the rubik's website on there so if they really need help they can go there. How's that? I hope I have explained some of the pros and cons that will need to happen with this so everybody could have fun. Thanks, and have a great day. gwf

Oh, c'mon!!! You don't know this?? And BTW, it's "The Little Apple", we prefer Upper Case ! We get broadcast on ABC nationwide every New Year's Eve! I'll give one hint, the military base is the current home of The Big Red 1, and it's not near Utah. But your local base would probably be willing to part with a couple of ammo cans, if they have live firing and you ask nicely. Check the Yellow Pages for either a DRMO or Environment and Conservation contact. Cheers! So where is it? Salt lake city? I am thinking that is what it is. Thanks, and have a great day! gwf

LOL!! OK, so my Mortar cans aren't THAT big... Thanks for the ideas so far, I'm thinking I'm gonna chain these to our local scrawny cedar trees to keep them in place, and the exchange idea is a great one! We also have a local puzzle-master/micro-hider who will probably get one for Christmas. Where is the little apple? i live in orem, utah, and so I am probably near to the army base or whatever you are talking about. Also, who is that geocacher that youare talking about who is the master puzzle and micro hider? I bet I can match or beat your cacher with one of my own. Hey, thanks and have a great day! gwf

That reminds me of a fairly new cache that I found here in Seattle. In one of our local parks, someone put out a huge ammo can with 500 film canisters inside. It was easy finding the can, but the real hunt was for the logbook, somewhere inside one of the film canisters. And you couldn't do the "shake and listen" method (the owner made the logbook big enough to where it doesn't jumble around inside), you had to physically open every canister to check. It took me about 20 minutes to find the logbook, but I think I got lucky compared to some of the other finders! I am actually planning a cache that is something like that, except it will be in one of those five gallon containers. Maybe only a three gallon, but it is still a lot of fun. Hey, thanks, and have a great day! gwf