wildgoose007

I've been a long time Garmin GPS user. I have a 60csx and 2 car GPS units. Been very happy with all my Garmin units. Recently I got an HTC Droid smartphone from Verizon. Being a dedicated GPS user, I was like, "who wants to use GPS on the cellphone? I am sure it's no match for my trusted Garmin". Eventually I got around to test the GPS capability on the phone. I was a little disappointed first, since there are no GPS information available (# of satellites, accuracy, etc). So I downloaded an app called "GPS Status", it was a fine app, gave me all the information that my 60csx gave me on the gps info page, and more. After playing around with the GPS feature more, two things really caught my attention, and that's the main purpose of my post. I noticed that the time for the phone to get GPS lock is amazingly fast, even from a cold start. It's like 1-2 seconds! How could it be faster than the SIRF III? I made sure the GPS feature is OFF, rebooted the phone, and turned it on again. Sure enough, after 1-2 seconds, it has 11 green bars! Holy crap, how did they do that? They must be cheating! I googled around and the answer is assisted GPS. The cellphone tower simply sends the GPS unit the initialization information the device would've needed the 30 seconds of uninterrupted sky to receive! It basically turns a cold start into a warm start! dadgum this is good. I wish my garmin unit can take advantage of this. But how can it, it's not a cellphone. The 2nd feature that I find really amazing is to simply see my exact real time position on the Google satellite map. I can move around and compare my surrounding with the satellite view! The only other time I've felt this excited about GPS was seeing my position on the map when I got my first eMap. In its current form, the GPS capabilities on the smartphone is still no match for the dedicated garmin units. If I am going on a trip, I'll be using my Garmin, not the smartphone. But the potential for assisted GPS, and real time access to the internet (satellite map, traffic, etc, address/business search) is endless. Come to think of it, the cellphone companies spend a fortune building the infrastructure to deliver the internet to your mobile device, and we are now just beginning to tap into its potentials. This infrstracture is not accessible to dedicated GPS devices, and therefore they are at a huge disadvantage. So what is Garmin/Tomtom going to do to complete with this new wave of GPS devices? I am not sure if I'll buy another dedicated GPS if the gps software on my phone reaches the capabilities of the garmin (tracklogs, waypoints, ease of use, etc). Is there a way for Garmin to tap into the cellphone network to get assisted GPS capability?

It's interesting that Garmin's website only lists version chipset software 2.90, while using webupdate you can get software 3.00. So if you updated without webupdate, do a web update and select yes for the GPS chipset update, power-off, and after rebooting it will show 3.00 instead of 2.90. Perhaps the speed improvements people have bee noted is in the 3.00 version of the chipset software. I am running the Taiwan 2.50 version of the firmware (equivalent to 3.50 english firmware), and it seems to work with 3.00 chipset.

It's interesting that Garmin's website only lists version chipset software 2.90, while using webupdate you can get software 3.00. So if you updated without webupdate, do a web update and select yes for the GPS chipset update, power-off, and after rebooting it will show 3.00 instead of 2.90. Perhaps the speed improvements people have bee noted is in the 3.00 version of the chipset software. I am running the Taiwan 2.50 version of the firmware (equivalent to 3.50 english firmware), and it seems to work with 3.00 chipset.

Wait till you bring the 60CSX on a plane trip. The elevation shown is -X ft, based on the cabin pressure. There's no way to change it to the GPS elevation so you can monitor the plane's elevation continuously. This has been reported numerous times to Garmin and the request has fallen on deaf ears. If this bothers you, please contact Garmin and let them know. I even kindly pointed out to them that they dont' need to disable the alti-meter, which they said is very hard to do, but just add a data field called gps-elevation. This should be trivial to do.

This is what I am able to find. Hope it's useful to other people that are looking for the same information. Garmin has teamed up with a local company, http://www.unistrong.com/, to produce the China maps. When you guy a Garmin GPS in China, you get a unit with a modified/localized firmware by UniStrong. The unit also comes with a pre-installed map of China on the SD card, in the form of a gmapsupp.img file. You don't get the DVD or the mapsource version of the map. The map is locked and only works with the specific unit. With some work, you can find City Navigator China online, both in English and Chinese. These are not the mapsource DVD version, but rather the gmapsupp.img file that people have shared. Using tools such as GPSDaemon or gmaptool, you can split this file into its components, and using additional tools, you can hack up some additional files and make the map visible in mapsource, all works beautifully when you do it correctly. Now before you get too excited, the real deal breaker is in the map itself. The government, in their infinite stupidity and paranoia, has applied a positional shifting algorithm to the map data before giving it out to the various map vendors. The shift is not constant, probably linear, and is in the order of couple of hundred meters. Not much but enough to make precision navigation using the GPS all but impossible. I verified this with waypoints I've marked in China. In Shanghai, they are off by probably 600 meters. In southern china, Nainan, it's off by something like 300 meters. Some have claimed that the shift is the same for a lot of the digital maps in China, and someone has compiled a correction table based on latitude and latitude, but are afraid to publish it. So how do the GPS sold in China overcome this problem? The answer is in the customized firmware. The Garmin firmware used in China (again not available as a general download), can read a gmapoem.img file, and applies correction to the map data based on information encoded in the file. So what does all this mean? It means that even if you go through the trouble of finding the map, you probably can't use it in your English 60csx unit. The map is probably only useful for viewing in Mapsource, unless you can find the localized Garmin firmware (extremely hard). Of course you can always just buy one in China, but it just seems silly. I hope one day their government will change the rules to allow digital maps of China to be sold over seas, then you will be able to buy the map from Garmin, and use it in China. It will probably happen when GPS becomes a commodity in China and no one cares about it anymore. In the mean time, you'll have to rely on the public domain maps. For more info, see http://www.pda4x.com/thread.php?fid=16

How do I view these img files in mapsource? Can I upload them together with my other regular garmin maps to my gps? I have a 60CSx with 1G card. Right now I have uploaded about 950mb of various maps using mapsource. Thanks!

I've noticed that my Garmin 60csx writes to the tracklog even when GPS reception is turned OFF. Anyone know why it does that? Is it for the elevation plot?

There were some rumors that Garmin is considering adding an "GPS Elevation" field as one of the data fields to solve the problem of using the GPS on the plane. Looks like it fell through the crack, again!

Ah, thanks, and it works as expected. Their current implementation sort of make sense, you don't want the ETA to dramatically change when you idle in traffic during driving. Still, 26 keystrokes to toggle between Car/Pedestrian routing! I'd vote for a "Prompt" option during routing.

Thank you! Thank you! It's good to know. It depends on who you talk to I guess. I called to request "auto-hiding" the data fields in the map display when you pan the map, and all I got was a solid "NO, it won't ever change. It's the way it has been since the original 60cs". I even explained how it works on the 2610 and that was beautiful, "It's a car unit sir, it was designed for a different purpose". OK. It is the least intrusive way I can think of to give the user a larger map display when the user pan the map (which the coordinate pop-up will show). You still have the coordinate so won't piss off people who use the coordinate, and no need to update any manual/documentation either. To see what I mean, do this: 1) Enable 2 data fields in the map page. (I have speed/elevation). Although the data fields take up some space, the map itself is still quite usable. The 2 fields takes up about 22% of the map. 2) pan the map, the extra popup for the coordinate is almost as big as the map fields, and together takes up about 40% of the map area. The map area now is quite small and difficult to see your surroundings. What I am proposing is just hide the data fields during panning, while still display the coordinates. (Personally I'd prefer if they hide the coordinates as well, until you stop, and the coordinates would pop up under the cursor). Basically this falls into the category of "no one really tested that particular configuration (displaying 2 data fields in the map page) when the product is designed". Had they tested it, and panned the map, someone would've realized something needs to be done.

Hmm, interesting point about removing the microSD card! Here's my (updated) 60csx upgrade instruction, follow this, and your unit should upgrade fine. If it doesn't, then blame Garmin! 1) Backup waypoints, routes, etc. Write down device configuration options. 2) Remove microSD card [new!] 3) Remove USB cable. Reset device to default by "enter + page w/ power" and choose "yes". Let unit initialize. Then turn it off, and back on again. (This ensures the unit has a clean state prior to flashing the new version. You don't want a potentially memory leaked/corrupted unit flashing the ROM!) 4) Connect USB cable, and update to newer version. 5) Reset device by repeat #2 again. (This ensures the unit has a clean state for this version, in case there are configuration state changes from prior version). 6) Put back microSD card, turn on unit, let it write map configuration data, turn off, and back on again. 7) Delete 3 Garmin waypoints, restore device configuration, waypoints, etc. Last year, I upgraded my 60csx without performing the resets above, and went on a 3 week trip afterwards. My unit suffered occasional freeze up (for 1-2 seconds every now and then) when I am using it on the trip. Very annoying. Has anyone else experienced this problem? I have a 1GB Kingston microSD card with almost 1GB of map data. With v3.2 it still seems to happen now and then. Haven't experienced it with 3.30 yet.

If I am hiking on the street and use FollowRoad to compute a simple route to a destination, the TimeToDestination (and ETA at Destination) is way off. I should be at least 20 minutes away, yet the unit says I am 2 minutes away. If I switch to Off Road routing, then the calculation is more accurate. Has anyone else seen this problem?

But they are never available when you pass by an interesting landmark! Oh, what's that lake? What's that mountain? I know, I like it too! That's why I bought the 60csx instead of the 60cx. I just wish I have the option to view the GPS elevation continuously during a flight, because it's far more accurate than the barometer in that situation, and isn't the GPS device all about being accurate??

Ah, I'd rather not get into this debate. If you can use your laptop or palm pilot, I should be able to use my GPS and play those silly Garmin games!

There may be some difference in the sunrise/sunset time due to difference in elevations, but I'd say the difference between sea level and 30,000ft (5.6 mile/10km) is insignificant compare to the ground position change at 600 miles/hour that will affect the sunrise and sunset time. To sum it up, I wish the product manager for the 60csx used it on a flight. Most of the issues I've bought up relates to using it on a flight. All the hardware is there, I just wish the software does a slight better job at it.

The sunrise and sunset is calculated based on your current position. Let's say you are traveling 700mph east, and at the current position, the sun will set in ~6 hours. But in 6 hours, you may have traveled 4000 miles and crossed a few time-zones. It would be nice if the device can tell you that, based on your current speed/heading, the sun will set in 3 hours instead of 6 hours. It's true that planes changes heading slightly from time to time, but even a coarse calculation based on speed/heading is far better than a static calculation based on the current position alone. In fact, one can go a step further and always calculate the sunrise/sunset based on position+speed/heading, since the current implementation is a subcase where speed is 0.

#1 and #4 is really annoying. Perhaps my title should've been "things that are really annoying with the 60csx". I like to have speed/elevation displayed on my main map screen. To me it is the 2 most important GPS fields. But, when you have data fields displayed on the map, and then try to pan the map, the added coordinate shrinks the map area quite a bit and makes it difficult to see your surrounding without re-configuring the map-page to remove the data-fields. Perhaps auto-hide any data-fields during map panning, while still display the coordinate would be a better thing to do. But the current design leaves much to be desired. They do this very well on the 2610 car unit by removing all on-screen clutter during panning. So obviously someone at Garmin knows how to do this correctly, unfortunately it's just not the 60csx PM. Regarding #1, anyway you slice it, the current implementation is problematic. The 60csx is a very configurable device, elevation, being the 2nd most important attribute of a GPS device (after horizontal position), should be more configurable on the 60csx than it currently is. If Garmin has the bandwidth and man power (and space on the device) to put in those (almost) useless games, they surely have the engineering resource to make the elevation display more configurable. The fact that you hear so many people talk about it is an indication that it's not done correctly.

While the 60csx does most of what it does well, there are few rather major problems with some of its functionalities. I am interested to hear what others think of these issues, and whether there's any hope of it ever being fixed. 1) Wrong elevation inside airplane, making the elevation reading useless. Garmin says they can't turn off the barometer. I can think of many half day (ok, maybe one-day) engineering solution to the problem, one being export a "GPS Elevation" field to the list of fields. Using GPS on the plane, especially on a long trip, is one of the joys of owning a GPS unit, but the more expensive 60csx does it worst than the 60cx. There were some posts about using the "fixed elevation" mode as a work around. Unfortunately my quick test shows that it doesn't work. 2) Fail to acquire a position fix unless 6+ satellites are in view. In theory, you need 3 satellites for a 2D fix, and 4 satellites for a 3D fix. My trusted eMap implements this very consistently. The 60csx however is far more arrogant. Sometimes, it won't compute a solution with 5 solid bars. Generally that's not an issue (it usually sees more satellites), but in an airplane, it's extremely frustrating seeing 5 solid bars, but no lock. (Unfortunately sometimes it's all there is in half of the sky.) Despite what others have reported, #1 and #2 makes the 60csx very frustrating to use on a plane. 3) In 2D mode, the GPS does not compute a speed, despite the position being updated each second. I've reported this problem to Garmin and hopefully it'll be addressed. It probably falls into the same category as "not being tested by QA due to the sensitive receiver always seeing more satellites." 4) Frustrating map panning due to the GPS coordinate taking up 1/4 of the screen. When you pan the map, you are usually trying to see what's around you. Why clutter the map with an almost useless GPS coordinate? Just hide all the fields if the user has any displayed, and show me the map. If the user pauses, display the coordinate in a popup, not as a fixed field on the top of the screen. The 2610 in comparison does this the extremely well. It show the map full screen by remove all on-screen clutter if you pan the map. 5) Compute the sunrise/sunset based on current speed/heading. The current sun-rise and sun-set time when you are traveling in the air not very useful. Would be much better if there's an option to calculate it based on current heading and speed. It makes taking those sun-rise and sun-set photos in the plane easier.