TripCyclone

I've actually run into this myself, not because I was placing caches within the guidelines but because someone else had placed some within 300 feet of my finals in a small neighborhood park. Something I hadn't thought of, but it seems you have, is the walking distance between them. If this has been pointed out to your reviewer, and they still are not interested in publishing it, then there is nothing you can do. However, might I point out something else to consider based on the selected parts of the original post. So let me gets this straight, you're placing a NIGHT CACHE in a park that has high rise office buildings, a parking garage and a parking lot (which would presumably have cars there) all around it. To find it, people have to wander around these structures at night with a flashlight. Uhhh...you're asking for a security issue right there. Even with the "The park's paths are generally well lit at night allowing a safe and comfortable walk through the park." statement, if I were a reviewer, I'd be hesitant too. All it takes is for one security guard to question why somebody is walking around at night with a flashlight, especially on a path that is already lit up, and they will call it in as suspicious behavior. Police will be called in. If the security actually sees them searching around for the final (and if they see the person, they are likely to continue watching them and see this), then police might call in the bomb squad to check it out. It will be on the news, and it will just be another one of those articles that other geocachers read about. When they discover that it was a night cache placed in a park as you've described it, and even I'd be sitting back and saying "Why place it?" Night caches are best designed for parks away from office buildings. Wooded trails are best, but I've seen them used in large recreation parks where the only structures are soccer fields and baseball diamonds. High rise office buildings...probably not the best location for a night cache to be near.

The original intention was to place multiple, SEPARATE caches, not a multi. Therefore cache saturation guidelines would entirely apply. That is one reason why the OP later questioned the idea of changing this to a multi. Their reviewer is probably well aware of this policy, and if the cache is submitted as a multi, I highly doubt that the reviewer would question the placements with regards to distance (presuming that the placements don't go against other guidelines). As Lil_Devil pointed out, there is no reason to point this out to the reviewer. About the only thing that would be worth mentioning would relate to distance traveled. If the caches are only .07 miles apart but the landscape requires a hike of .2 miles, then it might be relevant to ask the reviewer if that would be acceptable due to the plan of having the caches be part of a series. Asking the reviewer for advice in that instance would be beneficial. For some, the extra information of how you have to hike .2 miles and how they are related caches might be enough for the reviewer to say "Sure, sounds like a good idea." Can't hurt to ask.

I recently finished 100 days in a row. I originally set out to start on the final day of the last school that students were present (I'm a teacher) and to last until the first day back for kids this school year. That was 88 days. Then I pushed it 100 so that I could claim a 100 day challenge if I ever came across one. I'd have continued but I began hitting 20-30 miles a day just to claim another day. Too much for me to keep it going. The cool thing was hitting my 100th day on the same day I hit 2,000 finds. It was a fun goal to work on and would have liked to go longer, but my teacher salary and time prevented me.

Hmmm...contact me. Maybe we could pool our resources.

It may just end up being something you don't like. If that's the case, you can just choose not to go after them. Nobody will ever fault you for doing so. As a science teacher, I often get posed questions related to topics that are controversial. I always tell my students that the best thing they can do is ask questions. Try to understand both sides of a topic. Then they will have the information to make an honest opinion. I've sometimes reminded them of a student I knew several years ago who could not give me a reason for their opinion on exactly one of those topics. They could only tell me that they believed it because they were told that everyone else was wrong and they answer they were given was right, without any justification. Keep asking the questions. That's how you will make up your mind on the topic. The only thing I ask is that you remember that there are two sides and to listen to both sides openly, no matter what your final decision is. At least then, you can say that you have been fair in making your decision. Good luck and if you have further questions, feel free to ask. I'm sure many of us will be happy to help. TripCyclone

Here's a question. While the distance between two of them is .07 miles, is the path to get between those two .07 miles or is it more due to a winding canyon path? If more, then I'd say your best bet is to contact your reviewer and ask if that would be okay. If the distance traveled is over .1 miles, your reviewer might be open to it. And checking with them first would be good because they will be aware of it and maybe even have a suggestion for you to.

LOL...I saw your question the previous time you asked it and was about to reply before realizing that the topic had been a long dead and recently revived topic that had once again been closed. Good luck with your idea.

Yes, it would be a multi. In fact, my very first cache was of similar design: Massacre Canyon Multi You will need to list additional waypoints for each stage. You can select to have them hidden from view so that only you and a reviewer can see them. If there are physical caches at each stage, then list them as "Stage of a multi". If they are just a waypoint where a question is answered, and no physical stage to be found, that is when you'd list it as "Question". Within a single multi, there is no minimum distance requirement. The distance requirement applies to placement with respect to other geocaches and their respective "stages" if they are a multi. Anything else we can help you with?

Wow...seeing those photos makes me reconsider. I was going to start looking to see if I could find a way to at least make them last longer, but maybe it's a lost cause. Thanks for posting those. On the flip side. If the tin is part of a larger, waterproof design, it might work. I've seen caches where the actual cache container is part of a much larger design.

You'll have to battle rust with altoids tins. As to being creative, you can use them as part of a series. Put a clue inside each one and then put a final "puzzle" that requires you to find the series caches to get the clues. Just be prepared to get more altoids tins for when the first ones rust on you. Something else to consider is lining the inside with electrical or duct tape so that when it does rust, it doesn't ruin any contents. I'd also use a baggie to help keep the logsheet dry. For camo, you might look at this Flickr group: Creative Cache Containers. You might find some inspiration in camoing the container. I'll have to write altoid tins down as a future topic on my new site.

I just posted a response, but I thought of something else after reading this little bit. If you are just talking about death in general, that it is only depressing if the conversation is allowed to be depressing. I've had conversations about death that are actually enlightening. On the flip side, I'm sure that soon I will have to deal with the depressing aspects of death with respect to a relative of mine. Learning to handle the depressing along with the enlightening is part of life. As to kids not learning about death before they start life. Well, that again depends on the conversation. Are you teaching kids that death is something to be avoided and feared? Are you teaching them that death only happens to bad people? Personally, I fear death myself. But sometimes, that can be a good life lesson. What age kids are we talking about? If really young, I can very much understand wanting to avoid the topic. But as a teacher, I've learned that many kids have questions that parents don't realize they have. You'll have to talk about it sometime. The question is are you going to treat death as a negative thing that shouldn't be discussed, shouldn't be thought about, and should be avoided at all costs. Or are you going to treat death as another part of life, something that can be feared but can't be avoided. Something that, because it is there, is a reason to embrace life and to not have regrets. It's a sensitive topic. There is no correct answer. But, I can at least say that how you handle it around kids can and will influence them. The question is what kind of influence do you want it to have?

1. I would consider it okay provided it isn't disturbing the graves. 2. No geocache should involved DIGGING for any reason at any site. But let's assume you didn't mean it like that. I don't get bothered by walking around a cemetery looking for a geocache. Often I find myself looking around at the graves. A friend of mine was placing a geocache in a cemetery when he happened to come across a relative's graves. Relatives that passed away in a deadly house fire years back and the family had lost track of where they were buried. That geocache now tells their story. 3. It can be kid friendly if done right. If parents take their kids to cemeteries, it can be a valuable teaching moment about history, beliefs, and cleaning up after other people (I've lost count of how many times I've seen cemeteries with trash in them). And I'd hardly say that kids are running around dead bodies. That's a bit of a negative view unless you are visiting cemeteries where the bodies aren't buried. Kids sometimes don't think about things the same way adults do. What an adult sees as kid friendly and what a kid does aren't quite the same. 4. Some do it out of respect for a family member buried there. Some do it because the cemetery has historical significance. I recently saw pictures of a geocache that was incorporated into the headstones at the owner's request. 5. This comes down to looking at the value cemeteries have played throughout history. Many cultures revere burial grounds. Many cultures, including ours, have regularly used burial grounds for many purposes OTHER than as a silent place of remembrance. In fact, it used to be quite common to hold social gatherings at cemeteries, on the scale of large community parties. And they were for people to come and have fun, enjoy themselves, and pay their respects to lost loved ones. The idea that cemeteries are purely for silent worship is a rather new belief in the long history of burial grounds. Now, to point out some examples of good geocaching in cemeteries. There is a geocache near me in South Kansas City that was placed to highlight a cemetery where several early pioneers of the area are buried. There was another cemetery cache placed in North Kansas City a while back that, while placed near the edge of the cemetery, was placed to highlight a Revolutionary War veteran who was buried there. The only reason it was archived was due to a nearby homeowner who's dog was repeatedly jumping the yard fence and bothering people who visited the cemetery (including biting one kid). I saw one in the Kansas City that was highlighting a cemetery that was inside a parking lot. I've read reports from some geocachers who have frequently driven past it without ever realizing it was right there until they found the geocache. It's a great example of how cemeteries impact zoning laws. I've seen cemetery caches that require you to visit graves and gather information. Information can vary and can include what unit a former soldier served with, what the symbols on the grave represented (a railroad union member in that case), or more basic info such as names and dates. I've seen one geocache placed in honor of a famous singer who was buried at that particular cemetery. I've seen others that highlight important historical figures of an area. I've heard about geocachers organizing CITO's at cemeteries. Sometimes, they are the ONLY ones other than maintenance workers doing anything to clean up cemeteries. There have been geocachers who have worked with cemetery organizations to help map out cemeteries, including taking waypoints for each and every headstone to help provide better maps for visitors. You can help out too. Take a garbage bag with you and if you visit a cemetery, help pick up trash. While a few geocachers may place cemetery caches merely for the numbers, in almost every case I've seen, there is either a personal reason for placing it there or it is done to help highlight the history of an area. Do I think cemetery caches should be banned? Absolutely not. Do I think that the person placing them should take into consideration where they are placing it? Oh yeah. Don't put it against a grave, don't put it in a way that disturbs a grave or requires someone to disturb a grave to get to it. If they bother you, it is your choice to ignore them. Or, you could also look at them as a chance to pay your respects to someone, even if you don't know them. Look around and see what you might find. Recently, on a trip down to Dallas from Kansas City, I came across a cemetery cache. I popped in to pick it up and happened across the grave of a WW I veteran. I said a silent thanks for his efforts before I moved on. You'd be amazed at how much history can be located in a cemetery if you just take the time to look around. Of course, I'd be happy to talk to you some more about it if you'd like. Everyone has their own opinions about this topic. I'm glad to see that you are at least open to hearing what others have to say. Hopefully, even if you still decide that you don't like them, you'll at least be aware of some ways they can be good too. TripCyclone

I've started a new website called Creative Caches & Containers. The focus of the website is to not only highlight the creativity seen in geocaches, but also to provide a resource for geocachers looking to make a creative geocache. All articles are planned to include instructions on how to build creative geocaches, including materials needed, planning, placement, etc. When I was thinking about what to put on the site, I realized that much of the creativity I've seen in my experience deals with either a cache that has a creative container, or a cache with a simple container but a creative method for completing the find. This includes various types of geocaches, so expect to see information about puzzles and multi's alongside traditional hides, and of different sizes. The website is new, so there are only a few articles at the moment. However, one thing I'd like to do to make this stand out is open it up to reader suggestions. If you have a creative idea that you'd like to share, send me a line. A link to my geocaching profile is at the bottom of the site. Depending on the amount of people contacting me, I might consider having guest writers every once in a while. If you submit a design, you will get credit for bringing the idea to my attention. If you have a creative design that you have found on the trail, contact me with the GC # and I'll make contact with the owner. Just today I posted about a cache I found in North Dallas with permission from the owner. I'm hoping this idea takes off. I've seen lots of creative designs and wondered how people came up with them or even designed them in some cases. I'd love to be able to provide such a "how-to" resource for all the geocachers out there who are interested. Come check it out and let me know what you think. TripCyclone

Read my post about Charlie Brown http://creativecaches.blogspot.com/ The CO has several holiday themed caches in the North Dallas area.

I tried to see if someone else had suggested this, but because the forums prevent searching for anything under 5 characters (hmmm...possible update suggestion?), I couldn't find anything recent. I have a suggestion for the Geocaching WAP site. With the addition of touch screen phones, I have found that navigating the WAP site is a bit trickier when using your finger to select things. Since some of the links on the WAP site are only a single character, it can make it hard to select them. On numerous occasions I have tried to select something, and thought I had correctly hit it, only to have my finger slip and hit something else. So, my suggestion, and what I do know about HTML would seem to suggest that this wouldn't be a hard fix to make (if it's merely html or similar), would be to make the links the full line of text. For example, when logged into the main screen, instead of the first link being just the numeral "1", make the link "1 - View Cache". Instead of "2", use "2 - Find Caches". And so on. Making the whole line the link provides a bigger target for touch screen phone users to select. Then, to add an extra step, add an extra blank line between each line. This way, while trying to "4", or "4 - Travel Bug Lookup" in my suggestion, it is harder to accidently hit "Log Out" due to some extra space between those two lines. Of course, this could also be applied to spots where the links aren't just text, such as buttons or checkboxes (like the page where you select zip code or coordinates). All of this would mean less times we have to zoom in then carefully scroll over and position our finger in just the right spot to hit a single character. Just a thought to aid those of us who use Touch Screen phones. TripCyclone

That is all just different pictures of mtn-man Wow...Mtn-Man looks a bit feminine in some of those pictures. Must be bad lighting.

I know it's going to be hard to get, but I'm looking for a 2009 MOGA geocoin - Satin Silver Finish with Gold handles, unactivated. I have an unactivated 2008 Nebraskache Geocoin Member's Only Edition coin that I'd be willing to trade for it.

Okay, I have to update my list. Shift everything down and make my most desired as: 2009 MOGA geocoin - Satin Silver finish with Gold Handle. It's the only one of the MOGA set I don't have and it's hardest to get (I'm told only 30 were made). Oh, and if someone has one of these and is debating a trade, I have an unactivated 2008 Nebraskache Geocoin - Members Only Edition I'd be willing to trade for the MOGA coin so that you get something in return.

*Getting out Lackey's coin to count* Wait...that's a 2007 coin. Staff might not be entirely the same.

That's interesting. My feeling a certain way is rude? Especially when my feeling that certain way is never voiced until a thread brings up the subject. ...and I'm rude? I wonder if you even know the meaning of the word considering the subject matter at hand. What's more rude? Me not liking that my caches are used only as an excuse to log for something else. Or the people who only find my caches for the smilie and tell me as much to my face? If the person is flatting saying "We only came to find this cache because it completes a goal for us.", then yes, that's rude. But if the person is logging a find and adds that they are working on a challenge, or that it was find number 30 out of 40 that day, they aren't being rude. What would be rude is to then take that log and suddenly start assuming things the person didn't say. I guess you're not getting the whole quality over quantity thing. Are you talking about writing quality logs or going after quality caches? If you're talking about writing quality logs, then I'm trying to figure out what I said that gives you the impression I disagree with you on the value of quality logs. Heck, I even described how I tried to get a friend to put more INTO his logs. If you are talking about going after quality caches instead of getting quantity, than my opinion is that there is no reason the two have to be mutually exclusive. What one person sees as a quality cache others may see the exact opposite...and vice versa. And once again, what did I say that gave you the impression that I don't appreciate quality hides? Explain that to me please.

I've been looking through here and I'm surprised I didn't see the MOGA 2009 coins listed anywhere. I thankfully got my wish and recently completed my set: MOGA Geocoin Set Right now, some of the ones on my wish list: 1.2005 Groundspeak Lackey's coin 2.Spinning Delorme Earth coin 3.Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy 42/Don't Panic coin (the one shaped like a 42, not the circular one) 4.Brahean Geocoin 5.Nostradamus Geocoin (April 2009 geocoin club coin) Of course, 5 spots isn't enough to list everything I'd really want to get.

Here's a thought. Personally, I prefer to keep my caches available to all. Yet I can respect someone wanting to do a PM only cache for special caches (doing it on an average cache doesn't make sense). However, I once heard a valid reason for PM only caches. If a cache is marked for PM only, and a non PM accesses it (the normal way...not the secret passage way), they won't be able to look up the coordinates. As such, if there is an area where caches seem to get muggled a lot, and there is indications that someone signed up for geocaching to figure out where they were before muggling them, then marking it for PM might be a safety issue. That forces the cache thief to pay to learn where those caches are. It's one of the only reasons I've heard that actually makes a lot of sense. If hidden well enough to significantly reduce the chances of a random muggling and it still comes up missing, then it might mean that the cache thief is a geocacher.

I think part of the reason why some have fixated on short logs (and why I honed in on it in my post) is that there have been numerous references to a desire for logs to explain the value the person got out of finding the cache as opposed to just basic comments about completing a challenge or how many numbers they got that day. For example, you mentioned: It may not have been intended by you or some of the other posts, but somehow the message came out that short logs (with or without acronyms, references to numbers, references to challenges, etc.) = didn't care about the cache other than to meet a goal. At least, across the thread I got that impression from several different posts, including one of yours (though I did read it more from other people than yours...the comment I quoted above is the only occasion where I saw you mention something that is commonly associated with short, impersonal logs). Like I said, it may not have been intended that way. But like logs, sometimes the true message isn't always how people interpret the message. Which is why I mentioned how the issue of logs can be such a dividing line for some. Without someone clearly stating that they didn't care for the cache and it was only found to meet a goal in their log, it will always be subjective whether the logger used the cache as a "stepping stone", so to speak, for a challenge. Short, seemingly impersonal logs tend to give off that perception. That is why I feel that in the end, the act of judging a person's intentions merely on the log entry isn't necessarily fair. My friend's method of handling logs is an example of how this misreading of logs isn't accurate. So despite the intentions, you're reading "the reason written therein" when people visit your caches and getting upset when that perceived reason doesn't match your what your desired goals for that cache placement are is...well...flat rude. Or at least, it comes off as rude to many others, especially when you combine that message you portray with the original topic this thread was started about, the topic of a cache owner threatening to delete logs if people find his cache to complete a challenge. Of course, if the person left a log that said, "This cache s***s and I only went after it to complete a challenge." then yeah...I'd probably be annoyed myself. I know at least one cacher (who will remain nameless) who FREQUENTLY pisses people off with his logs, and it appears that he is fully aware of how he is perceived AND enjoys it.

Check out this link: GSAK Map Macro What this macro does is load up all of the geocaches in a GSAK database and exports them into Google Maps, creating a map of all of those items. Using filters, you can filter it so it only shows caches you haven't found. There are some options that you can play with too. Within the map, it shows clusters as a single icon. When you zoom in on the cluster, it begins breaking it apart into the individual caches. Several options exist for how it generates a list of the caches for the map. If you have a color PDA, you can also use Print Screen to generate an image that can be loaded onto your PDA. I've actually done this once before when I was heading to a small town that I wasn't familiar with. I had a few street level maps with icons in my PDA. Hope that hits what you were looking to do.

That's my fault. I was reading the thread and it was still high on the list of threads. I was about two pages in when I decided to add a comment and it wasn't until later that I realized the thread had ended about a week ago. My bad.